new Van Halen!!!

[Jusatele]

wow we have some Chickenfoot haters here.

however seeing the lineup in Chickenfoot I wonder why. It seems they Sammy has been producing hits since the 70s, Joe is a Guitar Icon with solid hits since the late 80s, Micheal is part of the VH everyone raves about, and Chad, or is it Aronoff now,can we fault either though

VH brings in two icons of rock, both of who have egos so big it has proven to bust them apart several times and the relatives of Eddie because Eddie seems to drive everyone off.

oh, by the way I like Tattoo, it actually shows maturity in EVH + DLR's song writing.

However, I see from the VH website most of the songs they are promoting are recycled early VH songs. And from the Chickenfoot site I see they have a disc full of new songs and are up for 2 Grammys.

I have to say that it seems maybe we should give Chickenfoot some cred here. I know the excitement is in the fact that EVH and DLR are back together to tour again, but with the same ole S&*^ they have been playing for years and not much new.

I will be going to both shows, I think they both have cred. But I think Daze needs a reality check, Sammy has been producing hits since the early 70s, has had a very successful solo and multi band career. and sold more records than DLR has.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

wow we have some Chickenfoot haters here.

however seeing the lineup in Chickenfoot I wonder why. It seems they Sammy has been producing hits since the 70s, Joe is a Guitar Icon with solid hits since the late 80s, Micheal is part of the VH everyone raves about, and Chad, or is it Aronoff now,can we fault either though

VH brings in two icons of rock, both of who have egos so big it has proven to bust them apart several times and the relatives of Eddie because Eddie seems to drive everyone off.

oh, by the way I like Tattoo, it actually shows maturity in EVH + DLR's song writing.

However, I see from the VH website most of the songs they are promoting are recycled early VH songs. And from the Chickenfoot site I see they have a disc full of new songs and are up for 2 Grammys.

I have to say that it seems maybe we should give Chickenfoot some cred here. I know the excitement is in the fact that EVH and DLR are back together to tour again, but with the same ole S&*^ they have been playing for years and not much new.

I will be going to both shows, I think they both have cred. But I think Daze needs a reality check, Sammy has been producing hits since the early 70s, has had a very successful solo and multi band career. and sold more records than DLR has.

Wow, welcome to...around 3 pages ago.  Sure, I'll give Chickenfoot credit.  The media calls them a "super group," and you seem to agree with that.  So, tell me, how does a "super group" wind up making such average (at best) music?

Sammy's a bum and nobody cares about Chad.  Sammy has produced one hit for himself (I Can't Drive 55).  Every other hit he's ever had was with Van Halen.  As for Montrose, PUH-LEEZ, have you ever met a rabid Montrose fan?  No, neither have I.

As for David's solo career, he would have had better luck as a Vegas lounge act.  He's a goofball nobody would like unless for the fact he was with Van Halen.  Van Halen was the high point of David's career, just like it was Sammy's.

If you like Chickenfoot and Sammy, that's great, but nobody else seemed to care when Van Halen dropped him and he fell off the face of the Earth for a few years prior to Chickenfoot.

 

[Cagey]

You have to remember the age of these guys. They're not late teen or 20-somethings with a hard-on that won't go down. Back when Montrose was really crankin', you couldn't walk and were still poopin' yer pants (don't be embarrassed - everybody poops! <grin>).

 

[m4rk0]

As for David's solo career, he would have had better luck as a Vegas lounge act.  He's a goofball nobody would like unless for the fact he was with Van Halen.  Van Halen was the high point of David's career, just like it was Sammy's.

That is only partially right,
I would probably pay 90 bucks to see DLR, Steve Vai, Billy Sheehan and that one Bissonette brother doing Skyscraper and ETAS stuff!!!

 

[Jusatele]

I do remember the first time I saw Sammy with Montrose, they blew the doors off the coliseum and I think they intemidated the headliners.
YEA Daze you make a good point, Sammy has been rocking the doors off places since the early 70s, his first chickenfoot album did go gold and his new one is selling real well, all in a day when Cds do not sell well because of illegal downloads.
I can see your point about him being with VH when they sold more Albums when ever before. And I can see your point about his terrible career while he has more unit sales than EVH ever has. Yeo I can see why you call him what you do.
:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

 

[Cagey]

...Cds do not sell well because of illegal downloads.

CDs aren't selling as well as they used to for a several reasons, and illegal downloads isn't one of them. For one thing, everybody has pretty much replaced their vinyl collections by now, so that bubble has burst. For another, who wants to carry around a mountain of CDs when you can store a whole mountain range of them on a device smaller than a pack of cigarettes that also plays them? Finally, who wants to buy an entire CD full of half-hearted attempts at viable tunes when all they want is the one or two pieces that are attractive?

Unit sales are actually higher than they were when you had to buy a baker's dozen tunes all at once to get the one tune you wanted, and the dollar volume is higher than it has ever been. The dirty little secret of music sales is that it's only the record companies who are suffering, not the music industry in gross. The market for CDs is shrinking, not the market for music. In other words, if you want to make a killing selling $.10 cent plastic disks for $15, you're gonna be in trouble. If you wanna sell music, you're in better shape than ever because you don't really need the recording industry rape club any more. For less than 10 thousand dollars you can put together a recording setup that only 20 years ago would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and distribution costs next to nothing.

Most of the whining you hear now about the music industry comes from the RIAA, who are essentially a consortium of buggy whip makers being more or less forced out of business by technology they refuse to embrace and a business model that doesn't make sense. They're watching a business that made them hundreds of millions of dollars being marginalized by a medium that costs pennies on the gigabtye.

I'm not saying there isn't some illegal sharing going on, but it's nowhere near as bad as they'd have you believe in terms of dollar volume and it's highly unlikely they'll ever be able to reduce it no matter how difficult they try to make it to do, or how seriously they punish the infringers.

 

[elfro89]

Cagey, agree with the gist of your point, but the problem with digital downloads isn't that their not embracing it, they want to control it so that the only way to get hold of the music is for you to buy it from them or their distributors. That is where they are both succeeding and failing. While they are making money off the digital downloads, they are widely available illegally. I know of plenty of people that do that, if the same proportion of people worldwide is the same as those I know who do it, then most of the world does it. It's definitely more of a problem then your giving credit for.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I do remember the first time I saw Sammy with Montrose, they blew the doors off the coliseum and I think they intemidated the headliners.
YEA Daze you make a good point, Sammy has been rocking the doors off places since the early 70s, his first chickenfoot album did go gold and his new one is selling real well, all in a day when Cds do not sell well because of illegal downloads.
I can see your point about him being with VH when they sold more Albums when ever before. And I can see your point about his terrible career while he has more unit sales than EVH ever has. Yeo I can see why you call him what you do.
:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

Sammy Hagar's sold more records than Van Halen?  Now, that's funny!  I can't remember Eddie releasing any solo records, can you?  Since that's the case, I can lay claim that I've sold more single units than Eddie Van Halen, as I've had ONE person purchase my very basic song off cdbaby.com!  :laughing11: 

Given Sammy's sold "more units than Eddie," I guess that's the same reason why Hagar has just as large a fanbase as Eddie, right?  I haven't seen Sammy on anybody's list of "guitar god" or "best vocalist" yet.  If he was so great, Eddie would be kissing and making up with Sammy, not David Lee Roth.  While we're talking about how great Sammy is, people must have been beating down the door to play on his solo records, considering Eddie contributed the bass guitar tracks to Sammy's 1987 solo record, "I Never Said Goodbye!"

Yeah, Sammy has a good voice...I guess, but I've still never heard of people waiting outside "Tower Records" at 12am for any of Sammy Hagar's new releases.  Lemme know when it happens.  Sammy's just a recognizable, hired gun, rowing the same boat as Buckethead, Blasko, or John 5.  While all these guys may have some talent, they will never have big solo careers.  They may have their own little clique of rabid fans but don't count on seeing any of them packing out stadiums anytime soon.

 

[Jusatele]

Daze, I have one word for you. Denial.
Can not discus some thing with a person in that su I will have to bow out and let you think you are correct.
And next time I am in Cabo, and see a crowd rwice around the block to see Sammy, who paid thousands to get down there. I will remeber your words.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I can remember plenty of times in the 70's & 80's where lines were wrapped around Tower records for Sammy Hagar concert tickets, long before he & the VH boys ever struck up a conversation.

I think the real issue here is this: 
Sammy has moved on from VH, has remained to be continually creative, has endured financially by doing so, has even made more money from the sale of his Tequila brand, and is enjoying it all.

EVH & Co. are trying to sell old material, maybe come up with a new tune or two, but haven't taken his innovation to any new levels, just the same tappety tappety, squeally, squeally. 

EVH & Yngwie are two guitar players who have already left there stamp on the industry, and their stampr remains where they left it.  Neither have gone to new levels, they're just resting on the laurels that equate to $$, but nothing creative is coming forth from it that is of any consequence.

Just my own two red cents.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Daze, I have one word for you. Denial.
Can not discus some thing with a person in that su I will have to bow out and let you think you are correct.
And next time I am in Cabo, and see a crowd rwice around the block to see Sammy, who paid thousands to get down there. I will remeber your words.

Okay, Justatele, you are right, I am in denial.  I'm in denial that people spend thousands to go to Cabo just to see Sammy Hagar.  People don't spend thousands to go to Cabo to see Sammy, they spend thousands for the vacation on Cabo.  While they're in Cabo, maybe they do stop by for a Hagar show, but you're going to have a very hard time convincing me that people pay thousands to go to a gorgeous place like Cabo just to see Sammy.

Saying people spend thousands to go to Cabo to see Sammy is preposterous, the same as if I tried to pitch an argument that people went to Las Vegas to see Motley Crue.

I can remember plenty of times in the 70's & 80's where lines were wrapped around Tower records for Sammy Hagar concert tickets, long before he & the VH boys ever struck up a conversation.

I think the real issue here is this: 
Sammy has moved on from VH, has remained to be continually creative, has endured financially by doing so, has even made more money from the sale of his Tequila brand, and is enjoying it all.

EVH & Co. are trying to sell old material, maybe come up with a new tune or two, but haven't taken his innovation to any new levels, just the same tappety tappety, squeally, squeally. 

EVH & Yngwie are two guitar players who have already left there stamp on the industry, and their stampr remains where they left it.  Neither have gone to new levels, they're just resting on the laurels that equate to $$, but nothing creative is coming forth from it that is of any consequence.

Just my own two red cents.

I would agree Sammy has continued to evolve while Yngwie is still stuffed in his leather pants and buying AquaNet by the case.  Just like Yngwie, Eddie found himself "typecast," undoubtedly a victim of his own success.  If Eddie put out anything that sounded like anything but a Van Halen record, the masses would riot.  What if Eddie did a punk record?  Who would buy it?  What would people say?  They'd have a fit.  What if Yngwie decided, "Ya know what, I wanna put out a Death Metal record?"  Again, his fanbase would plummet faster than stock in Tim Tebow.

What about Sammy putting out a blues record?  His smaller fanbase would probably be much more accepting of the change because he'd been wise not to pigeonhole himself into a single musical category like Eddie and Yngwie.

Now don't get me wrong, Sammy has taken part in some good projects and he did help Van Halen continue on a level of success after David left, and maybe it's just my age, but I don't see anyone touting Sammy Hagar as one of their favorites.  Maybe Sammy's fans are a few years older than I am, but I'm yet to meet any rabid Sammy Hagar fans.

So, IF we were in Cabo (and it would NOT be for Sammy...) and he were playing a venue there, IF my wife and I had time (which we probably wouldn't...we're in Cabo, remember?), we might decide to go out for a "night on the strip" and catch a Sammy show, but that would depend on ticket prices.  I'd pay $15-$20 to see him, but not a cent more.

 

[stubhead]

If I had thousands of dollars to go see Sammy in Cabo, I'd build some guitars or take a spin through Harbor Freight tools or something. In sort of a sadistic, semi-tragic way, I've often thought it "funny" to watch some family on vacations (I spent a bit of time in the islands cooking). The kids are all screaming they want their own bed tonight, WHERE'S MY TEDDY BEAR, Mom is trying to corral the kids and shut them up without publicly beating the stuffing out of 'em, and Dad is walking really stiff-legged as he's watching his life savings going down the chute.

THE REASON PEOPLE GO ON VACATION IS TO GET AWAY FROM THEIR TELEVISION SET, they are subconsciously aware that it's destroying their minds, but they're stone-cold addicts - it would never, ever occur to them to turn it off. So they spend thousands of dollars to "vacate" their minds, but all the kids want to do is watch "Spongebob Squarepants"* in the hotel room. 

On the other hand, if all you want to do is get so hammered you can't remember anything (until your "friends" post yer pix on Facebook) one place is pretty much as good as another.

*(Don't get me wrong... why, some of my best friends... etc.) :cool01:

 

[Jusatele]

Say what you want about what it cost to get there but cruise ships are not.free and his bar is the number 1 attraction in port
now deny this

both chickenfoot albums have charted top ten

you know I guess there are a lot of guys who are not Sammy fans buying those disc. 2 top tens yet Sammy does not have a fan base?

Deny what you want but bottom line is he is successful, extremely successful. Why does that bother you?
I mean Britney Spears sold millions of records and I could careless.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Say what you want about what it cost to get there but cruise ships are not.free and his bar is the number 1 attraction in port
now deny this

both chickenfoot albums have charted top ten

you know I guess there are a lot of guys who are not Sammy fans buying those disc. 2 top tens yet Sammy does not have a fan base?

Deny what you want but bottom line is he is successful, extremely successful. Why does that bother you?
I mean Britney Spears sold millions of records and I could careless.

Of course his bar is the #1 attraction at port,  HE'S A CELEBRITY!  Not to mention, what do people do while on vacation in Cabo?  They drink!  What do people on cruises do?  They drink!  ccasion14:

There are a lot of famous people who own clubs, bars, restaurants, etc.  The Viper Room?  You can bet there are a ton of people visiting L.A. who wanna go to the Viper Room just to get a possible glimpse of someone famous.  It's what people in this country do.  Rock stars and actors are like royalty here.  It's the same way in NYC.  How many people visit Central Park in hopes of seeing Robert DeNiro going for a jog?

Why do you think it bothers me that he's successful?  And do you think it's only him who's responsible for those sales of those Chickenfoot records?  Do you think Satriani fans aren't contributing to those sales, or Red Hot Chili Peppers fans aren't contributing to those sales?  How'bout Michael Anthony fans?  What about those who actually liked VH when Sammy and Michael were both in the band?  C'mon man, we aren't talking about a Sammy Hagar solo record here.

If you like Sammy, that's great...to each his/her own, right?  Just don't get your nose bent when others don't agree with you.  Just because I think the "Star" and "Z-Body" are the best designs Warmoth offers doesn't mean everyone else does.  I threw my guitar into a "GOTM" contest and got one vote...mine.  Did I piss vinegar over it?  No.  Why not; because I don't care.  In the end, that Star guitar makes me happy, just like Sammy makes you happy.  I don't expect you to like my guitar, just the same as you shouldn't expect me to like Sammy Hagar.  :dontknow:

 

[Jusatele]

My nose is not bent, I just find it funny how there was some, what, 6 pages of a thread about the new VH song, and a vast majority of it was about hating Sammy. So I commented on that and it seems I was inundated with more Sammy hate.

Hey I even mentioned I like the new song Tattoo.
I think I was commenting about CF hate anyway. Just asking for some cred for them.

You see, I still wonder how long the Egos of DLR and EVH can be in the same arena before all the old feelings pop to the top, I think I mentioned that in my post.

I do not see it as a matter of who was better, I loved early VH and middle VH, now that the later VH lineup has remelded I say I like their new song, but am I going be asked to buy another cd of rehashed old songs I already own to get the song Tattoo? Looking at the site it only is promoting 1 new song and a bunch of used stuff. WTF.

At least with CF I get fresh material.

Anyway, as I said, denial. I see you can explain why he is so successful and stuff but still claim he has no fans. Now that is denial. I mean to say he is a celebrity, and claim he has no fans. How can you be a celebrity with no fans?

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

My nose is not bent, I just find it funny how there was some, what, 6 pages of a thread about the new VH song, and a vast majority of it was about hating Sammy. So I commented on that and it seems I was inundated with more Sammy hate.

Hey I even mentioned I like the new song Tattoo.
I think I was commenting about CF hate anyway. Just asking for some cred for them.

You see, I still wonder how long the Egos of DLR and EVH can be in the same arena before all the old feelings pop to the top, I think I mentioned that in my post.

I do not see it as a matter of who was better, I loved early VH and middle VH, now that the later VH lineup has remelded I say I like their new song, but am I going be asked to buy another cd of rehashed old songs I already own to get the song Tattoo? Looking at the site it only is promoting 1 new song and a bunch of used stuff. WTF.

At least with CF I get fresh material.

Anyway, as I said, denial. I see you can explain why he is so successful and stuff but still claim he has no fans. Now that is denial. I mean to say he is a celebrity, and claim he has no fans. How can you be a celebrity with no fans?

There are a lot of celebrities with no fans...some for the right reasons, some for the wrong reasons.  Look no further than Kevin Federline, Vanilla Ice, and Casey Anthony?

As for getting fresh material with CF, that's great if you like CF.  While personally, I think they're about as fresh as mid-80s Van Hagar, as long as you think they're fresh, that's all that matters.  Personally, I don't mind "Tattoo" as much as others, but the lyrics are ridiculously amateur; the music I can deal with, the lyrics...no thanks.

As for Eddie's ego and David's ego, I'm confident they won't last more than a few months on tour together without imploding.  If they do actually complete an entire tour, I'd be amazed...kinda in the same way I'd be amazed if Axl Rose didn't keep his fans waiting for 3 hours after the supposed start time of a show.

 

[Jusatele]

well I see you are at last making sense

how ever, celebrity, celebrated,must have fans to be celebrated or who would care enough to mention you.
you may not be a fan, but in order to keep selling the amount of tickets he does, and to be able to pack guys into his bar in Cabo, yes you have to have a fan base. And he makes money hand over fist from that bar.

As I said in my original post, seems to be a lot of CF hate here, why else would we be debating him in a VH thread.

now, accept the truth, you do not have to like it, it can even chap your ass to nno end, but it is a fact that Sammy has a huge fan base and that is why the go to see him, after all if you were not his fan, why pay to see him? there are lots of guys paying to see Sammy.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

well I see you are at last making sense

how ever, celebrity, celebrated,must have fans to be celebrated or who would care enough to mention you.
you may not be a fan, but in order to keep selling the amount of tickets he does, and to be able to pack guys into his bar in Cabo, yes you have to have a fan base. And he makes money hand over fist from that bar.

As I said in my original post, seems to be a lot of CF hate here, why else would we be debating him in a VH thread.

now, accept the truth, you do not have to like it, it can even chap your ass to nno end, but it is a fact that Sammy has a huge fan base and that is why the go to see him, after all if you were not his fan, why pay to see him? there are lots of guys paying to see Sammy.

Thanks for your backhanded attempt at a personal insult.  What doesn't make sense is you seem to think people go to Cabo on the sole purpose to see Sammy Hagar.  People go to Cabo for the beach and the scenery, not to see some washed up rock star in red leather pants and sunglasses.  If they like Sammy, they might catch a show while in Cabo, but your delusions that all these people make expensive trips to see him are nothing short of amusing.

Make sense?

 

[bagman67]

Dudes, really?  If you're three posts in and still not understood, or unwilling or unable to understand the other guy, you're wasting your (and the innocent bystanders') time.  Herein we see the colossal drawback of the text-only medium.  Stuff's too easy to take personally, whether it's intended or not - and it's too easy to take personal shots, however minor, because the cost of confrontation for it is so low.  Result:  Much heat, little light.


Take a deep breath.  We all love guitars (or  at least think the fat one has a nice personality).  We all agree that Van Halen was a significant band, irrespective of our varying views on the former and/or current state of the band, its personnel, and its recent output.  We all agree and have demonstrated that there's tremendous variation in opinions.  Admitted, that's nobody's idea of an interesting conversation ender, but it beats this "My point proves my position; I am right and you are wrong; and you are wrong and therefore not worth the effort to maintain respect for our differences" subtext.  It's not like we're arguing over the death penalty here - it's pop music.  This kinda noise would fit better on a Youtube comment thread.


Anyway... now I'm as guilty as you are, for wading in, but oh well.


Peace


Bagman

 

[Jusatele]

Insult ?

no I have never tried to insult you, and I apologize if you think I am trying to.

I am trying to get you to see the truth, and as of now we are down to the bit about you saying Sammy has no fan base.

You still are in denial about that. According to you Sammy Hagar has no fans and people go see CH for Joe Satch or Mr Anthony or who ever the Drummer of the month is.  I do not deny that there are fans of any of them, but I also in no way in the world would deny that a large percentage of them are going to see Sammy.

Think about this, how many hits has Sammy had in Solo? If next year Sammy wanted to do a solo record do you think he could get recording company backing? You know they would back him in a nano second, It seems he sells a lot of units.

Now I am finished with this thread, I see no reason to discuss it anymore.

Again, I apologize if you feel insulted, it is not my, nor has it been my intention to do such. If I have seemed to have tried, I was wrong and feel bad because of such.

Jim