Shootout 02 - Real Marshall?

[Superlizard]

One set of clips features my Marshall JTM45RI (modded to 60's specs), another set features Guitar Rig 3's "Plexi" modeler.

Both have clean & dirty clips (~4MB size for clean, ~2MB size for dirt).

Can you guess which is the *real* Marshall?



Set 1:

[CLEAN 1]
http://streamer2.soundclick.com/jarry_DL/35/06/vipdownload/lizardpie+marshalltestclean1.mp3

[DIRT 1]
http://storage1.soundclick.com/jarry_DL/59/05/vipdownload/lizardpie+marshalltestdirt1.mp3


==========================================================================


Set 2:

[CLEAN 2]
http://streamer2.soundclick.com/jarry_DL/32/05/vipdownload/lizardpie+marshalltestclean2.mp3

[DIRT 2]
http://streamer2.soundclick.com/jarry_DL/32/05/vipdownload/lizardpie+marshalltestdirt2.mp3



Notes:

- The clean clips are straight in
- The dirty clips both have a real MI Audio Crunchbox between the guitar and amp
- Clean guitar is my Warmoth Candy Purple strat w/ Callaham hardware and H/SRV single coils
- Dirty guitar is my Fendermoth Purple strat w/ Callaham hardware and SD Seth Lover (bridge only)
- All settings (amp, modeler, guitar, stomp & 'verb) exactly the same
- Amp settings for both real and modeler:  Presence 10 - Bass 2 - Middle 10 - Treble 10 - Hi Treble Vol 6
- Tunes & styles are: Hey Nineteen (jazzy), Over The Hills & Far Away (strum), Stranglehold (rawk)
- Touch o' 'verb provided by Waves

Results will be revealed in approx. 5 days...  GOOD LUCK.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

I've lost interest.  If anything, these little A/B comparsions have me leaning towards modelling.

 

[exalted]

Set 2 sounds a little bit more full, but frankly, the second set's first clip sounds terrible. It just sort of drops out there.

 

[GoDrex]

clip 2 dirty was recorded too loud and is clipping all over the place.

I'm guessing 2 is the d00... uh I mean tubes. :laughing7:

 

[tfarny]

2 is the tube amp but 1 is a better recording and actually sounds better because it's recorded right.

SO: If we guess right, it means modeling amps suck, and if we're wrong it means our ears suck, right? Can't wait to find out your interpretation of this.

 

[Superlizard]

SO: If we guess right, it means modeling amps suck, and if we're wrong it means our ears suck, right? Can't wait to find out your interpretation of this.

No, if y'all are wrong you each owe me 20 bucks... this is my get-rich-quick scheme; one of many.  :laughing7:

 

[dmraco]

I am going with one...much better recording too.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

I'll take door #2.

I only listened to the clean clips, guitar straight into what ever. Once I saw the crunchbox was in the chain on the dirty tracks descriptions I didn't even bother.

 

[stubhead]

Get a job, hippie.* :headbang1:

I'm gonna go with #1- modeler, because of the extreme amount of high signal that a tube amp wouldn't let through.

"Amp settings for both real and modeler:  Presence 10 - Bass 2 - Middle 10 - Treble 10 - Hi Treble Vol 6"

I doubt that anyone normal (i.e., not anti-modeling maniacal) would intentionally set a modeler's controls exactly like an amp, they'd at least try to make it sound good. I find that the modeler's descriptions of the sounds sometimes have scant relations with what the knobs do... so I try to make them sound as good as possible. Many people look at a "Twin Reverb" model as one that ought to be clean, but some engineers look at it as a 65w tube amp that ought to distort before a 100w tube amp - ignoring the historical uses of a Twin vs. a Marshall stack. Marshalls are great country & jazz amps - below "5". I'd like a modeler without models, if you know what I mean.

(I wonder if I should make a test with a hideous-sounding tube amp and a decent-sounding modeler......) :hello2:

*(Just kidding)

 

[Superlizard]

Get a job, hippie.* :headbang1:

You've noticed my hair growing haven't ya?   :icon_biggrin:

Marshalls are great country & jazz amps - below "5". I'd like a modeler without models, if you know what I mean.

Actually - depends on the Marshall.  My JTM45 does country & jazz above "5" - hence my usage of the Crunch Box for dirt.

There's no way my JTM45 gets any more distortion than a somewhat light clip cranked... we're talkin' 60's era "gain" (if you can even call it that)...
the modeler "Plexi" was the same way.

 

[blue313]

I'm going with #2 based on the dirt clips. 

The cleans are just too different.  #2 sounds like the amp had a blanket over it.

 

[Superlizard]

BTW, dbw - if you're reading this:  VOTE.

I did this one for you.

 

[dmraco]

well...when are we going to get the answer...i seem to be in the minority here.

 

[dbw]

BTW, dbw - if you're reading this:  VOTE.

I did this one for you.

Ugh, I don't want to download those big-ass clips.  Anyway I'm at work right now.

 

[Superlizard]

Ugh, I don't want to download those big-ass clips.  Anyway I'm at work right now.

Heheh - I trimmed things down for this test... 2MB and 4MB clips this time.

 

[dbw]

OK I'll listen after work  :headbang:

 

[Return of Guitlouie]

I voted for one.  Just because.

 

[Superlizard]

Current results have been revealed, although I will wait for dbw's pick before
I reveal which amp was which.

 

[dbw]

Well, the second set of clips sound like crap, especially the dirty.  The first clips sound way better.  It's impossible to A/B these recordings, they sound completely different.

 

[Superlizard]

Well, the second set of clips sound like crap, especially the dirty.  The first clips sound way better.

And with that (succinctly) said, there's your answer folks:

1st set of clips is the Marshall!

Now, some have mentioned along the lines of, "why set the GR3 modeler to your amp's exact setting?  Modelers typically have to be tweaked to sound good".

Here's why:

- Guitar Rig 3's "Plex" model has a grand total of 6 knobs - those knobs are Vol I, Vol II, Presence, Bass, Mid & Treble - very little to tweak.
- The extra stuff on the "Plex" flip panel ("bias", "50/60hZ", "sag" etc) did nothing discernable to the tone.
- The "Plex" tone is inherently bassy;far too much bass built in - couldn't turn down the mids, pres, or treble or it'd be complete mush.
- My Callaham H/SRVs were too "weak" for the "Plex" to push any volume (fits my theory of general amp modeling principles whereupon
amp modeling is mainly designed for uber-hi gain nu-metal tones - complete with uber-hi-output pickup in tow) - if I turned up Vol I,
I would be introducing more gain into the tone (this is how non-master volume Marshalls operate), and therefore wouldn't have an
even playing field.

But the ultimate reason why:  This is a modeler... it's supposed to sound like a Marshall Plexi circuit; specifically a 100 watter Plexi (there were other
real Marshall t00b models that had a Plexi/"persperex" panel).  A Plexi circuit is about as simple as it gets for a non-single-ended amp.  Therefore, I should be able
to plug in, dial it in just like a Plexi (not much dialing at all, actually), and get great tone.  

However, this is far from the case.  And considering the "Plex" and its overly bassy tone, even with knob tweaking there's no polishing this turd.

The bottom line is Guitar Rig 3's "Plex" model sounds nothing like a real plexi.  Now, I'm sure there's other modelers out there that supposedly do
the famous plexi tone, but I don't own them (for a good reason).  If anyone else would like to pit their plexi/plexi clone against a different modeler, feel free.

[Oh yeah, and for the record, my JTM45 doesn't do distortion on its own (at best, a light clipping) - there's no clipping diodes, extra preamp t00b or master
volume to be found - it's a pretty clean amp... hence my usage of pedals to achieve higher gain.]

Next up:  FENDER Blackface!   :icon_thumright: