Real amps vs fake amps

[Re-Pete]

The whole problem with recording a guitar is that the process is lossy.  The same is true when a facsimile of the guitar is send to a PA.  It may sound 'like a guitar', but it's not what the guitar sounded like while it was being captured.

You've described - very accurately - how the Kemper sounds.

A guitar player will sit or stand close to the amp and hear all the guitar in it's full glory. But what the P.A. will give the audience, or indeed what the Kemper will profile and then replay, is the mic'ed/D.I. sound.

This threw me at first and I wondered if the default settings on the profiles were set flat or dead.... But then I realised I was hearing the sound as it would come into a Recording Studio Control room, or alternately, the sound as it is captured on a P.A. Desk. That's OK with me as I'm using it for home recording.

From my very limited time in recording studios, I've seen people wrestling with the art of capturing a guitar and amp. It has always been a fair bit of compromise, or lossy.

Technology has obviously improved to the point it is now available to folks to do at home, and I favour that,  but you have to be aware of the many issues associated with recording engineering to get the best result. I don't know how many times I've recorded a fantastic piece of mud!  :sad1:

 

[elfro89]

I'll leave this guy and this video to make my arguments on the issue for me. A lot of truth to this, I feel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBSmO-9OmcA

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Heh, I actually know Rob a little bit. Lovely chap. We're of a similar mind on a lot of this stuff.

 

[mayfly]

Roland Cubes rule man.  :glasses9:

 

[elfro89]

Roland Cubes are amazing. I might actually just ditch my 50w all tube head for the cube 80 and fire up my 2x12 with vintage 30s. An el capistan and an ola dbucket and I'd be a happy chappy.

 

[Re-Pete]

I'll leave this guy and this video to make my arguments on the issue for me. A lot of truth to this, I feel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBSmO-9OmcA

Rob also participated in an extensive video review of the Kemper & was overall impressed by the technology's performance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAuY9OyMsdg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjL0zIR4wZM

 

[alterbridgefan]

I want an Axe Fx. :sad:

 

[jay4321]

That's probably where a lot of us are ending up. I'm holding out for a few more generations. Harder to make the jump when you've built your entire sound around 6 pedals and your favorite combo amp. Pretty awesome for people who want a ton of versatility though.

 

[Cagey]

I don't think you need to wait for another generation or two - the better units are essentially done as far as tonal accuracy and behaviour/response. Might get some better/different user interfaces or package options over time, but I don't know what else. Thing is, it's a pretty expensive solution to apply as a replacement for a combo amp and a smallish brace of pedals, unless you're playing through a few Eventide boxes and a Dumble or would like to greatly expand your tonal palette.

 

[Surf n Music]

I got me a blackstar amp and 5 pedals. Already I am overwhelmed at times with all my options of tone. I wouldn't know where to start if I had a Axe FX -II or something like that. For now at least I like my simple little setup.

 

[swarfrat]

I just landed in the fx modeling world unintentionally with the zoom multitrack. I think a lot of these things essentially have the static sounds down. The dynamic response separates the better units from the cheaper ones. But where they all fall down, and where Lance Keltner's Retrowreck mops the floor with all of em, is interface. I want 6 knobs to tweak my parameters. No more, not much less. I'm fine with mode switches and meta parameters "ie, Vox mode, Plexi mode" but I want a VTMBMP interface. Not scroll wheels and menus

 

[Cagey]

I've been thinking about getting a Mustang III for that exact reason. Plug 'n' play. I sit down to the Axe, and I end up goofing around with the thing for 45 minutes and playing for 15, rather than just playing for an hour. The myriad possibilities of the Axe tempt you to tweak all the time, thinking you may be missing out on something. If you're limited to a basic amp, you simply make do.

 

[bagman67]

I'm very happy playing with my Mustang III.  It's not the finest piece of technology every developed, but for 225 bucks with both footswitches, I cannot complain.  There's lots of power under the hood and it's easily accessible.  My favorite patch so far is the Bassman emulator with a little overdrive and vibrato.  Nice swamp noise!  If you have a couple benjamins, you could get a toy that's a lot less fun than this one.  I'd be lying if I said it was perfect - I'd like it to be quieter, and some of the distorted sounds are a tad fizzy or farty sounding, but there's a lot of really great stuff, too.  Certainly good enough to jam with a couple buddies, and it's lightweight, too.

 

[Cagey]

Is yours a version 2 model? The ones I'm seeing cost slightly upwards of $325 (new, street) - still pretty approachable, though. Supposedly, the noise and raspy distortion of the version 1 model has been dealt with. I do see a lotta complaints about the interface complexity, but I can't imagine it being too terribly demanding.

 

[swarfrat]

maybe I'm just looking at it all wrong. Maybe the up/down/enter 64 character interface really is the epitome of the "one knob" paradigm. I know I sure as heck don't continue tweaking once I get something dialed in.

 

[bagman67]

Is yours a version 2 model? The ones I'm seeing cost slightly upwards of $325 (new, street) - still pretty approachable, though. Supposedly, the noise and raspy distortion of the version 1 model has been dealt with. I do see a lotta complaints about the interface complexity, but I can't imagine it being too terribly demanding.

There's a lot of used units floating around under 200.  I got mine from a guy who bought the amp and then his wife gave birth - guess what won out?  Anyway -


Mine is v.1, but I see there's a version 1.9 firmware update I'll download.  If the noise issue is in the hardware, well, nothing is likely to change.


As far as the complexity in the UI - I don't find it to be so, but I also have what a co-worker termed the "figure it out" gene.  You cannot reasonably expect much flexibility without some fairly detailed means of defining the outcome.  It ain't perfect, but it's not the hell-ride of a yamaha DX7, for example.

 

[Prometheus]

I think that some of Fender's amp offerings are a pretty nice compromise between "real" and "fake" amps. They're not all super-rich in features, but their low price point and ease of use are definite pluses. I'd looked at the Mustang too, but opted to go even simpler, with a Super Champ X2 combo. I upgraded speaker, tubers, and OT - on the clean channel it is very sweet indeed.

The Fender Fuse adds some nice versatility, and while it doesn't have all the interfacing that the Mustang does, it's pretty nice to just twist the dial to a new amp model and play happily. It's not a Kemper of an AxeFX, but it's not trying to be. But for at-home playing or grab-and-go, it's versatile and sounds good.

For the others here who are wondering about a small amp in this vein, it's worth a look.

 

[Cagey]

I've got a Super Champ XD - one of the limited edition blonde versions - and it's pretty nice. Recommend it to just about anyone. But, it's just not adjustable enough for me. I want more, and I want a 12" speaker. The Mustang III has that, and doesn't have tubes, so...

 

[Prometheus]

I was looking at a used XD when I first went looking. But the X2 just had more to offer. More amp models, incl. Tweed, Bassman, Princeton, Deluxe and Twin. The higher-gain models aren't as good, but that\s not the part of the dial that I live in. In fact, I reprogrammed those positions to alternate versions of the former. And the Fuse software (same as the Mustang's) does allow for programming in some rudimentary effects.

So that would give you more versatility. Maybe not enough? Of course, there's still the issue of the 10" speaker. My Eminence Copperhead does a good job, better than stock, but will never push air like a 12".

And you prefer the tubelessness of the Mustang? Is that because you'd like to be able to drive it via your AxeFX?

 

[Cagey]

And you prefer the tubelessness of the Mustang? Is that because you'd like to be able to drive it via your AxeFX?

No, I just prefer tubelessness period, which has traditionally not really been a viable choice if you have a discerning ear. Tube amps are heavy, inconsistent, maintenance-prone little rascals, and I'm just tired of it after all these years. Now that I can have my cake and eat it, too, I'm a happy camper.

If I had a Mustang, I wouldn't drive it with the Axe. I'd use it in place of it when I didn't feel like messing around. I build/service a lotta guitars around here, and sometimes I just wanna plug into something fast/easy/good. Currently, it's the SuperChamp, but even that's on its second set of tubes in 3 years, and I think the latest preamp tube has already gone microphonic.

But, the more I think about it, I may just pass on the 'stanger. I generally crank up the Axe for its super-accurate tuner anyway when I get done with a build and start into setup, so I don't know what I'm bitching about.