WARMOTH BAD?
- Thread starter boynigel
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Thanks for the good words folks. And if you're going to kill a chicken or anything, be sure to throw it on the BBQ grill.
I'd like to offer up a few numbers to this discussion.
1. Warmoth has been around for 29, almost 30 years. We've got to be doing something right to last that long.
2. We're one of a handful of Fender licensed replacement parts manufacturers in the world. Made right here in (sunny today) Puyallup, Washington.
3. Warmoth builds thousands of necks and bodies a year and the numbers continue to increase.
4. Warmoth builds (or has built) for a number of boutique manufacturers and professional artists. You'll see a growing list on the website.
We all know musicians can be a vocal and opinionated bunch. Given that there are tens of thousands of Warmoth bodies and necks around the world, it is inevitable to find someone, somewhere that doesn't like their instrument but that should not overshadow the sheer volume of Warmoth products going strong 'in the wild.' I've had the fortune of talking to a great many customers that tell me their Warmoth parts have remained reliable over ten years or more. I think those players are the ultimate testament to Warmoth quality.
:rock-on:
I'd like to offer up a few numbers to this discussion.
1. Warmoth has been around for 29, almost 30 years. We've got to be doing something right to last that long.
2. We're one of a handful of Fender licensed replacement parts manufacturers in the world. Made right here in (sunny today) Puyallup, Washington.
3. Warmoth builds thousands of necks and bodies a year and the numbers continue to increase.
4. Warmoth builds (or has built) for a number of boutique manufacturers and professional artists. You'll see a growing list on the website.
We all know musicians can be a vocal and opinionated bunch. Given that there are tens of thousands of Warmoth bodies and necks around the world, it is inevitable to find someone, somewhere that doesn't like their instrument but that should not overshadow the sheer volume of Warmoth products going strong 'in the wild.' I've had the fortune of talking to a great many customers that tell me their Warmoth parts have remained reliable over ten years or more. I think those players are the ultimate testament to Warmoth quality.
:rock-on:
i am not a 100% satisfied customer of warmoth as could be evidenced by the many of my whines on this forum, but two facts i would not dispute the company :
very good quality of woods (so invariably very resonant)
and a professional finished product (i remember getting my first strat neck (which is one of their most basic/cheapest necks) - yet its beauty simply took my breath away!)
but one thing that i think the company should be doing is a proper fret levelling/dressing on its necks which contrary to many other views on this forum i think is integral to the neck itself and not necessarily related to the body it is coupled with.
very good quality of woods (so invariably very resonant)
and a professional finished product (i remember getting my first strat neck (which is one of their most basic/cheapest necks) - yet its beauty simply took my breath away!)
but one thing that i think the company should be doing is a proper fret levelling/dressing on its necks which contrary to many other views on this forum i think is integral to the neck itself and not necessarily related to the body it is coupled with.
vtpcnk said:
I respect your position, but would you be willing to pay an extra $150 per neck for the service? A good fret dressing takes time. Time isn't free for an employer. A hobbyist can spend the time necessary to do it themselves, or they can pay a professional to do it. Sure, I guess Warmoth could take away that choice and just do it on every neck...it would make some happy, but outrage others, and all for the sake of saving people who want a professional setup a car trip to their local luthier/tech.
Or do you mean Warmoth should perform the service for free?
G
GP
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I also have to disagree with this. I have learned over the last two years to do fret levelling and dressing, and I can tell you emphatically that it cannot be done properly with just the neck sitting in front of you, and no other information about what the end user will be doing with said neck, and what they like or dislike. Warmoth makes it very clear that they do not do this, and why, and I for one do not want them to do any more than what they do to MY necks!
>I respect your position, but would you be willing to pay an extra $150 per neck for the service?
i pay only 30 to 50 bucks in new york city for this (and i have done it thrice). and i would think it should be cheaper in most places in the usa.
when fender or gibson or any other reputed company sells you a guitar (at the price it costs to get a guitar done by warmoth) you do not have fret levelling issues.
the only reason i can accept non fret levelling is the technical argument that it needs a body.
but again a strat neck is going to go on a strat or a jazzmaster and a tele neck on a tele etc. so even if the body is necessary, they can do it on a template body.
i don't think i can buy the argument that a $300 plus guitar neck needs further work to get it working.
i pay only 30 to 50 bucks in new york city for this (and i have done it thrice). and i would think it should be cheaper in most places in the usa.
when fender or gibson or any other reputed company sells you a guitar (at the price it costs to get a guitar done by warmoth) you do not have fret levelling issues.
the only reason i can accept non fret levelling is the technical argument that it needs a body.
but again a strat neck is going to go on a strat or a jazzmaster and a tele neck on a tele etc. so even if the body is necessary, they can do it on a template body.
i don't think i can buy the argument that a $300 plus guitar neck needs further work to get it working.
Death by Uberschall
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The main reason why Warmoth can't do a level and dress along with a truss rod adjustment is because there are too many variables beyond their control. Until that neck is put under tension by the strings and settles in, there is no way to know in advance how it will need to be adjusted. And without a proper truss rod adjustment, you definitely would not want to look at doing any work on the frets. Other variables to consider are climate conditions in your area (temp, humidity) and what gauge strings you decide to go with. Heavier strings obviously put more tension on the neck. People like Gibson, Fender, Shur, etc. can and do perform that final stage of neck/fret work in-house, but they are also working with a completed instrument that is strung up and under tension. Even then, stores and buyers have to take them to local luthiers/warranty centers for final set up under the manufacturer's warranty if something settled and change during shipping or while getting worked over in the store by a 13 yr old Slayer wanna be. We have Tim's Guitar Workshop here local to me. He is a warranty center for most guitar manufacturers and does this all the time for Gibson, Fender, Ovation, Martin, etc.
warmoth makes replacement PARTS, not custom guitars. you turn the parts into a custom guitar. warmoth just can't do the fretleveling, because some dont want or need it (me for example; 5 warmoth necks, never needed a leveling job, well, not seriously that is). it depends on how you want your neck to be. round crown, flatter crown, just too many variables. thats why, otherwise they would've offered it, right?
buckallred
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vtpcnk said:
I have picked up high-dollar Fender guitars many a time that had unbelievably shitety frets on them . . . I always wondered who in the world would pay $1,500 for a tele with frets that felt like rusty fencewire. I think that Fender and Gibson intend for their dealers to go over their guitars, especially the frets, before putting them on the sales floor.
AprioriMark
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buckallred said:
Yeah, I'm not the type of person to be a fanboi of a product just because, but let me say without bias that *every* *single* Warmoth neck I've just slapped on a guitar or bass has met or exceeded my experiences with stock Fender or Gibson guitars. Unfortunately, instruments need a professional setup once they're in their "natural environment," and while sometimes they happen to work well "out of the box," that should be considered good luck and not an expected standard. Part of being a musician is understanding, care, and maintenance of your instrument. Setup falls under those catagories.
-Mark
http://www.newyorkguitarrepair.com/
he is very good and charges quite reasonably. he is extremely busy as well and you have to book your appointment well in advance.
anyway the $30 was just an approximate figure. for my first strat neck, three frets needed to be leveled. and that's what he charged me for levelling them. so the charge is only for the actual work involved.
but if you take your entire (warmoth) guitar to be assembled levelling is part of the deal. for like $125.
he is very good and charges quite reasonably. he is extremely busy as well and you have to book your appointment well in advance.
anyway the $30 was just an approximate figure. for my first strat neck, three frets needed to be leveled. and that's what he charged me for levelling them. so the charge is only for the actual work involved.
but if you take your entire (warmoth) guitar to be assembled levelling is part of the deal. for like $125.
TonyFlyingSquirrel
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exalted said:
Have you tried Skip's Music? I've had work done by them before when I was in Modesto. It wasn't fretwork, but they did good work nonetheless.
I paid $110 for my last fret-level job (wasn't a Warmoth). Almost no one does fret-dressing from the factory unless it's a very high-end or custom guitar. As stated by someone else here, Warmoth is a parts supplier, not a custom guitar builder like Anderson or Suhr. Fret-dressing is a time consuming process that would drive up the prices substantially. I don't think one can reasonably fault Warmoth for not dressing the frets on the necks they sell. I DO think that the frets should be properly seated, and the ends should not be sharp or protrude beyond the edges of the fretboard. Obviously, the wood can (and does) shrink back a little, but I don't think it would shrink that much in just the time it takes to ship the neck to a customer. In any case, you get a lot for your money from companies like Warmoth...
Let me ask this way:
Who would possibly want a mandatory fret level, dress and polish if the original frets as pressed in were good enough? Mind you, for a $100 extra on a $150-$250 neck.
And all that on a fresh, brand new neck, and wood quality this or that, the wood will work a little bit in some direction. The result could very well be NIL overall.
A useful option would be a "less rough" nut cut. You can't properly cut it but you could quickly reduce the height of the slots to something safe based on where the first frets are. I could think of easy measuring devices for this.
FWIW, my new Warmoth neck doesn't have the "middle lifted" fret phenomenon that the other one had. I'm pretty sure my new one is 10-16 compound, the old one certainly was. The '59 back shape is also very much what I wanted, reinforcing my suggestion to re-think the boatneck. The boatneck near the nut is just uncomfortable, even for a person like me who grew up demanding V-necks.
Who would possibly want a mandatory fret level, dress and polish if the original frets as pressed in were good enough? Mind you, for a $100 extra on a $150-$250 neck.
And all that on a fresh, brand new neck, and wood quality this or that, the wood will work a little bit in some direction. The result could very well be NIL overall.
A useful option would be a "less rough" nut cut. You can't properly cut it but you could quickly reduce the height of the slots to something safe based on where the first frets are. I could think of easy measuring devices for this.
FWIW, my new Warmoth neck doesn't have the "middle lifted" fret phenomenon that the other one had. I'm pretty sure my new one is 10-16 compound, the old one certainly was. The '59 back shape is also very much what I wanted, reinforcing my suggestion to re-think the boatneck. The boatneck near the nut is just uncomfortable, even for a person like me who grew up demanding V-necks.
I've poked around on a lot of other guitar forums looking for information on various obscure guitar related questions, and the people here are at least twice as smart and three times as helpful as the people posting on every other one I've seen. I take everything I read anywhere else with several huge grains of salt.
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