warmoth stratocaster replacement neck flat vs. tiltback, single radius vs. compound radius

[BroccoliRob]

so i re-read your post on the blue guitar and was fascinated by all of it....especially the finishing of the unfinished guitar neck. it looks absolutely amazing!

maybe you can answer a finishing question for me.
i'm going with a clear satin-nitro finish on a plain maple neck. i thought about going with the vintage "tint" finish but it is a bit to dark for my taste. if i could somehow achieve a finish that was 1/3 or 1/2 the tint of the vintage tint satin nitro, i'd be stoked! i'm not sure if the satin finish is "pore-ish" or not. perhaps there is a product that i can just rub onto the neck (post satin finish) to get it a little bit darker but not quite as dark and the tint that they offer. (?)

i might have to post this to the FB guitar and finishes message board for answers.

yes, here's what u do, and follow these instructions very closely. you need to get some Albanese Gummi bears, specifically the Mango and Pineapple flavors. Take a ratio of 2:1 (pineapple to mango) and dissolve them in some acetone overnight. A whole neck might need like 10 pineapple and 5 or even 4 mango (if you want it less yellow). mix this pigmented acetone into some Tru oil and apply as many layers of it as you like to achieve your desired color. bonus: it smells great. feel free to experiment (the Asian pear gummies would make a pleasing color imo). do not use off brand bears or sugar free bears, they will NOT WORK FOR THIS DO NOT ASK ME HOW I KNOW

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

To get a natural looking light tint on plain maple, I would simply get the clear satin nitro finish and wait about 2 years. In my country the sunlight is strong, so a room with natural light gives a natural patina effect on wood and nitro lacquer. Vintage tint isn’t needed for this IMO.

 

[stratamania]

i might have to post this to the FB guitar and finishes message board for answers.

I am not on FB so cannot help you there.

so i re-read your post on the blue guitar and was fascinated by all of it....especially the finishing of the unfinished guitar neck. it looks absolutely amazing!

Thanks for the positive comments on the guitar, which is purple to clear burst.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

yes, here's what u do, and follow these instructions very closely. you need to get some Albanese Gummi bears, specifically the Mango and Pineapple flavors. Take a ratio of 2:1 (pineapple to mango) and dissolve them in some acetone overnight. A whole neck might need like 10 pineapple and 5 or even 4 mango (if you want it less yellow). mix this pigmented acetone into some Tru oil and apply as many layers of it as you like to achieve your desired color. bonus: it smells great. feel free to experiment (the Asian pear gummies would make a pleasing color imo). do not use off brand bears or sugar free bears, they will NOT WORK FOR THIS DO NOT ASK ME HOW I KNOW

i'm not sure if you are serious or being sarcastic

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

I am not on FB so cannot help you there.



Thanks for the positive comments on the guitar, which is purple to clear burst.

sorry, my mistake......purple guitar.
note. i was in a bad accident that caused brain-damage and screwed up my right eye (partially came out of the socket and had to have a prosthetic socket put in.....and cheekbone. but the trauma to my optic nerve plus the damage to my right frontal lobe has caused problems in viewing certain colors in the light specturm....so i'm looking though some tinted glasses, so to speak........purples and blues sometimes look the same to me. so no disrespect on the color of your guitar.

 

[TBurst Std]

i'm not sure if you are serious or being sarcastic

It’s neither. It’s Broccoli Rob. You’ll learn to appreciate him.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

on a different technical question.
i just noticed that my guitar has a 21-fret board. does that mean i have to get a 21 or can i still 22-fret finger board.?

is there a correlation between the bridge size and the nut size.? i've got a 42mm nut but my bridge, top to bottom measure 66mm and the top string hole is about 56mm....so that would men the string radiate out from the nut to the bridge in a "fan" type configuration. the distance between the strings at the nut are closer together than than the distance between the string spacing at the bridge.
is this correct? it just dawned on me while i was taking measurements for possible new saddles.

 

[TBurst Std]

This thread is 5 pages. Remind us. It’s simplistic, if you have a 21 fret Fender spec instrument, a Warmoth 22 fret will work.

No need to worry about bridge spacing. The strings will “fan” the same. You just have an additional fret.

Now if you want the same spacing on the 22 fret that you would have at the 21 fret, that’s different geometry.

While I appreciate attention to details, at some time people have to learn concepts. Until then, everything is a question.

 

[TBurst Std]

I apologize if that sounds harsh, but simply learning 5-10 basic concepts would have addressed 90% of your Qs. Feel free to PM me. I’d be glad to have some discussions with you.

Without concepts of how things work, a SOP is required for everything. How do I turn on the shower for a medium hot shower? where’s the manual (SOP)? As nauseum.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

This thread is 5 pages. Remind us. It’s simplistic, if you have a 21 fret Fender spec instrument, a Warmoth 22 fret will work.

No need to worry about bridge spacing. The strings will “fan” the same. You just have an additional fret.

Now if you want the same spacing on the 22 fret that you would have at the 21 fret, that’s different geometry.

While I appreciate attention to details, at some time people have to learn concepts. Until then, everything is a question.

when you're learning a new subject/concept/skill, that includes a very large amount of variables, it can be overwhelming. i chose a starting point. but then one question led to another and to another and too another. i don't mind if people get annoyed with my endless questions. they can choose to respond or not respond. but certain questions must be asked in with-in the framework of much larger questions, or scale down further into smaller questions. i.e. - if i hadn't taken my tremolo out of the guitar to take measurements of the bridge and of the saddles, i would never have thought about the string spacing between the bridge and the nut. so i didn't know that strings "fan outwards as they approach the bridge". and since fenders have a particular scale to them (25.5") how would i know if extending that and extra fret to 26 (?) would have an adverse effect to it's tuning?.........i wouldn't.

what appeared to be a simple process of picking out a replacement guitar neck with many different options seamed easy at first, but then gradually became more complicated when 1 options was combined with the second and third options...........all the way to the `15th option.

where many replacement neck manufactures and sellers just give you a name and type of guitar they fit, they don't cover any of the complexities that i've come to begin to learn about. never in a million years would i have thought off the bat that strings radiate from the nut to the bride in a fan-like formations. i've come across compound radius', which was new and now understand but i have zero idea what is going to pop into my head when i start looking at all the different options for a new neck....how all the objects interact and play nice in the sand-box.

i'm not here to be annoying, and it wasn't my intent to be annoying if that's how i'm being perceived.. but this is also a forum, which means people ask questions.....some people ask a few. some people ask many. i like to cover all my bases, and leave no stone unturned, especially when i'm not an expert at something.

if you care to recommend a book for me to read then by all means. give me a few. i just don't like asking too few questions and then wishing i'd asked more b/c what i ended up buying wasn't what i was expecting, and have to start all over again.
and no, i was not upset by your comment.

 

[Scab Pickens]

howdy.
so i'm trying to pull the trigger on my replacement neck purchase from warmoth.

I must have missed the details on your current neck. What kind of guitar are we even talking about here? What are you replacing and why?

I'm starting to get the feeling that we have all been played by an AI bot ...

I hope not, but I would almost feel better if that was the harsh reality.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

I must have missed the details on your current neck. What kind of guitar are we even talking about here? What are you replacing and why?

I'm starting to get the feeling that we have all been played by an AI bot ...

I hope not, but I would almost feel better if that was the harsh reality.

why would a chat-bot target an unofficial guitar forum regarding question about a replacement neck for a 30 year old guitar? every "bot" has some kind of purpose. usually phishing for information that could lead them to contact information and then possibly on to financial data and then a money scam. i seriously doubt that someone would program a bot to ask if there is a relationship between the nut width and the width at the bridge.
i'm just a guy who is asking all the questions before i purchase a new neck only to find out that i overlooked 1 aspect of all the options only to, in the end, force me to to ask the right questions in order to not have to but the same neck twice.

but to answer your questions.......................wait, this bot needs a glass of water..........plz hold while i scam someone else at the virtual water-fountain!.....

ok......so. i have a 1989 MIJ stratocaster, which i have not played in 10 years or more. lost my guitar MOJO. but i came back. when i took off the old strings to reaplace them i noticed huge dents in the 1st 5 frets, which i learned was pretty common for nickle frets. called around about getting a fret-job here in las vegas.............minimum $400 at GC and more for a real luthier. so though my readings i found out the the best option would be to just buy a replacement neck with the fret size/material that i preferred. (stainless medium jumbos)

a few friends recommended warmoth. so i started going through the options for a new neck..........every measurement was a mystery to me. i didn't know what i had on my MIJ, or what i wanted to have on a new neck. my ultimate goal is to practice and get good at fret-jobs so i can replace them on my rosewood/maple OEM neck so the value would not be diminished by altering "that" particular neck.

originally i was interested in gettin a modern tilt-back to eliminate the use of string-trees and other friction point so the guitar would stay in tune when using the tremelo. i sorta want this to be my "frankenstrat"......just not that ugly and with all single coil pickups. i have a gibson les paul custom for certain genres and the fender for more 80's EVH/metal thrasher type of playing........utilizing the tremelo.

then a few people commented to me that the modern double-trussrod has a different sound to it than the single rod vintage/modern. so the only reson for getting the tilt-back was to limit the # of friction points. so #1 locking tuners, #2 graphite nute #3........well, nothing i can really do about the bridge........like installing a floyd rose, which would need modificcation and again....would bring down the value of the OEM guitar. i have future plans to build a stratocaster type build with a double-humbucker at the bridge........after ive done several pricatice fret jobs i want to use this new neck on the new double-H's stratocaster-like guitar and return the old one to the guitar i'm getting the replacment neck for.

so issue #1........i'm a lefty, which made finding locking staggered lefty tuners a bit difficult. and then on the specs (for hipshots), it says they are compatible with 10mm holes, or 27/64" holes......which was really confusing to me. if the manufacturers (Hipshot, etc) are all basucally recommending 8.5mm or 10mm holes for the most correct fit, why on earth is warmoth using standard sizes that aren't even close or "on the money" for a correct fit. apparently you have to use a 25/64th hole and sand the hole a bit until the tuning pegs fit properly........which to me sounds ludicrous. why wouldn't warmoth just have 8.5mm and 10mm hole options under "tuning hole size"???? it's a drill press. can't they just change the bit to metric and make everyone happy??? why continue this mediocre support of metric and standard measurments on the exact same neck?!?!? so i enquired "are the manufactures producing these in metric or standard?". no-one could answer me. why should the solution to get a proper hole size be with a friggen #2 pencil and 220-grit paper, when they could just use the correct drill bits to begin with???

i went ahead and ordered the tuners b/c the diagrams did not indicate the size of the shaft that goes through the tuning hole?? so rather than just sit and wonder, i just ordered the tuners. new neck, new tuners, so i don't need to match old tuner holes. i'll measure the the tuners when they get here and make some kind of decision. or take someone's educated advice.

so the tuners are ordered and i'll deal with them when they arrive and see what the best option is for size.....perhaps i need a guitar "peg-hole-reamer?" no idea. maybe i can get warmoth to do a custom order on the holes. id prefer to get it sprayed with the clear satin-nitro finish inside the holes rather than bore them out and then have to re-seal the holes by reshooting the head-stock......

then i was curious about the compound headstocks. sounds great. lots of people reommended the 10-16...........i'm left wondering if perhaps a 9.5-14 would be better suited for a vintage/modern with a 42mm nut...........enter question #3. why a 42mm nut and not a 43mm? well i looked up all of EVH's guitars and he was using a 42mm and the evh wolfgang uses a 41.2mm (?) nut. so i figured there must be a reason why he picked a nut size much smaller than the modern 43mm. i think i i did read that the smaller the nut, the closer the strings are to the edge of the fretboard, which could be a little "weird" for lack of a better term. so i'm not 100% set on the 42mm vs 43mm.....

and all this was before i yanked my tremelo out of my strat and measured it from every side and angle......and then discovered that strings are NOT parrellel to each other, as i just assumed they were.......but rather, they fan out from the nut towards to bridge................leading to #4.....

#4 10-16 compound radius. free, yes. the best for this guitar? i have no idea. someone mentioned they didn't like the more extreme flatness of the 16" diameter at the body. they prefered a little more rounded. so that is personal preference, but it's not like i can play one to see what it feels like........BECAUSE.......i'm a lefty. i went to Guitar Center in Las Vegas. guess how many left-handed guitars they had out of about 500 guitars......... ONE (1) and it was a package deal epiphone or squire for $130, and boxed up.........and definitly not a compound radius. suffice it to say, i can't just stroll into a guitar shop and play with things to see how they feel b/c they don't buy any lefties. lefties are stricly special orders....or used.

which brings me to #5. the finish. i prefer the clear satin nitro. feels smoother than a gloss. now keep in mind this is a 30 year old guitar so the pots and switch and pickup covers, which were originally white, are now slightly yellowed. i tried out the warmoth vizualizer feature to see what a vintage satin nitro would look like........... it's a bit to dark for my liking. if i could get it half-strenght it would be almost spot on with the yellowed accessorie parts. so then i'm wondering to myself, is there some kind of oil that i ca rub into the nitro (since it is semi-porish, that would darken the new maple up a tiny bit to match the other yellowed parts?....then i get a "gummy bear" recipe which sounds absolulty absured. i'm not sure if you can buy a wipe-on satin nitro w/ a bit of tint or if you have to get a rattle-can, or if i need a real gravity fed spray gun with a compressor attached. is this part super important? no. would i like it to be a tad darker, yes., will it kill me if it isn't, probably not.

so this chat bot says "in summation"
#1 locking tuners (check). tuner hole size (to be determined after i get the tuners)
#2 how to enlarge the tuner holes if necessary? (to be determined)
#3 nut width. 42mm or 43mm. since the strings fan out they will be about in the exact same location above the 12th fret b/c they are fanning outwards. but what is the draw to 43mm? some people refer to it as the "sweet-spot"
#4 compound radius. 10-16 or 9.5" - 14"? is it really noticiable? is "soloing" above the 12th fret going to feel any different between the 2???
#5 tinted satin nitro. is there a product that can be possibly diluted or sprayed, or whipped on and off to give it a little "patina" rather than a ore orangish tang flavor to it?

so that is actually all the questions i have as far as purchasing the neck. i'll have to deal with the classic tremelo to optimuze tuning...perhaps new springs or saddles, but that is a separate issue.

ok this chat-bot is exhaused and going to sleep....yes, we bots actually need rest. please feel free to buy a few acres of my swampland in florida or just drop me a DM with your CC info. i promise i won't use it............much

thanks and good-nite!
john

 

[stratamania]

if you care to recommend a book for me to read then by all means. give me a few.

Please click on the Welcome to the forum link in my signature, that thread has many links to builds etc, a book list and answers to many of the questions you have.

I am sorry to hear about the injuries you have. It would be a good recommendation to get an idea of basic principles and concepts and not overthink the minutiae. Once you have the basics down, many of the variables etc fall into place.

Also, browse through the Warmoth website, which offers lots of information.

Will it fit my Guitar Body?

warmoth.com

 

[TBurst Std]

and since fenders have a particular scale to them (25.5") how would i know if extending that and extra fret to 26 (?) would have an adverse effect to it's tuning?.........i wouldn't.

if you care to recommend a book for me to read then by all means. give me a few. i

Well let’s take a Fender Strat. They come with 21 or 22 frets. Both are 25.5 scale length. The scale length doesn’t change because of the extra fret.
If the nut and bridge are identical, the string spread doesn’t change because of the extra fret. The nut, 12th fret and bridge are all located at the same point.

Get Dan Erlwine’s books (I think he has videos too now):
How to make your Electric Guitar play great
Guitar Player Repair Guide.

Again feel free to PM me. A 30-60 minute phone call should address 90% of the what if’s you have brought up as well as the ones that haven’t come up yet.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

I must have missed the details on your current neck. What kind of guitar are we even talking about here? What are you replacing and why?

I'm starting to get the feeling that we have all been played by an AI bot ...

I hope not, but I would almost feel better if that was the harsh reality.

no idea why there is a space here. to posts got composted (compound-posted) LOL

Please click on the Welcome to the forum link in my signature, that thread has many links to builds etc, a book list and answers to many of the questions you have.

I am sorry to hear about the injuries you have. It would be a good recommendation to get an idea of basic principles and concepts and not overthink the minutiae. Once you have the basics down, many of the variables etc fall into place.

Also, browse through the Warmoth website, which offers lots of information.

Will it fit my Guitar Body?

warmoth.com

i will certainly take a look. many of my questions go unanswered because they are questions based on "personal preference" (42mm or 43mm nut) parts and manufactures questions. metric vs. standard...................this is going to be the one that kills me. it will be on my headstone. Here lies John-Bot, who "fretted" himself to death because he could decided between a metric or standard string heighth gauge"

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

Well let’s take a Fender Strat. They come with 21 or 22 frets. Both are 25.5 scale length. The scale length doesn’t change because of the extra fret.
If the nut and bridge are identical, the string spread doesn’t change because of the extra fret. The nut, 12th fret and bridge are all located at the same point.

Get Dan Erlwine’s books (I think he has videos too now):
How to make your Electric Guitar play great
Guitar Player Repair Guide.

Again feel free to PM me. A 30-60 minute phone call should address 90% of the what if’s you have brought up as well as the ones that haven’t come up yet.

i'll take you up on that chat.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

ok, now i'm really urked...........i got my hipshot tuners in the mail last night. opened them this morning. instead of them being 18/19/20mm, they are 19/20/21mm. they discontinued the 18mm b/c it was too small had had catastrophic hardware failures on the pegs.

so i'm stil wanting to get as good a break-angle as i can on the nut to the locking tuners WITHOUT using string trees. so will these work or should i return them and go for the Gotoh SG381-07 MGT, that are 6-inline that have (3) 18.5mm tuners and 3 (20mm) tuners.... that leaves E/B/G at 18.5mm which is a little crisper break than 19's and 20's, and the D/A/E's will be 20mm's instead of 21, so a slightly better break on the nut for the low A & E-strings

i can return what i received b/c they posted the schematic diagram that i posted here, so basically false product information.......... i'm not in a super hurry.

NEW Gotoh SG381-07 MGT 6 In-Line Set MAGNUM Locking LEFT-HANDED - CHROME | eBay

The SG381 tuning machines feature the accuracy and reliability Gotoh is famous for. They features a 16:1 gear ratio for precise, accurate tuning, and a die-cast enclosure that is permanently sealed and lubricated for years of smooth operation.

www.ebay.com

oh, i was talking to the actual warmoth tech rep, and he said the Hipshot tuners i bought would require the "Planet Waves - 13/32" tuner holes.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

i had a fantastic conversation with T-Burst last night. very informative! all around super-guy. very knowledgeable and helpful!

i'm pretty much settled on what neck i'm going to get. really now it's more of an aesthetics thing with the color of the wood and finish, which is a decision only i can make.

i'm still "if'y" about the hipshot tuners i got that were 19/20/21, instead of 18/19/20, which the vendor told me were discontinued b/c of device malfunctions associated with the 18mm's just being "too small" i'm not sure what standard post sizes are for regular non-staggered tuners. need to look up a few manufacturer's specifications. to see.

if i'm trying to compare the 6 regular string tuners to staggered locking tuners that use string trees, i see, or visualize the relationship of heights and the use of string trees and not using string trees.

is there a standard height for string trees? for the 1st - 4th strings (2 needed)? i guess that would be dependent on the the hight of the tuners tuning post (peg-height).

i'm guessing that that tuning tree's should ideally be the same height as the tuning peg-hole, but not 100% sure
if you aren't using string trees is it "better" to have a tighter/sharper angle from the nut to the post or is it better to have a "flatter" flatter angle from the nut to the tuning post? i'm guessing that a flatter angle would decrease the friction over the nut but not sure how that would effect tuning or playing.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

Googled "break angle" and got this
"For a Fender Stratocaster, the ideal break angle from the nut to the tuners is considered to be a moderate to slightly steep angle, with most guitarists aiming for a break angle where the strings are visibly angled upwards from the nut to the tuning posts, but not excessively so; a good starting point is around 3-5 degrees depending on the string gauge and playing style."

so i'll just break out my trusty @#$%??? and measure that........................

 

[TBurst Std]

John, think back on our conversation last night. Just get staggered tuners and a well cut nut.