warmoth stratocaster replacement neck flat vs. tiltback, single radius vs. compound radius

[TBurst Std]

To the OP, stop guessing and simply email sporthitech and tell them what tuner hole size you have. They’ll tell you the correct one if they have ones that fit. 5 days of discussion for a 5 second email.

 

[ruscio]

To the OP, stop guessing and simply email sporthitech and tell them what tuner hole size you have. They’ll tell you the correct one if they have ones that fit. 5 days of discussion for a 5 second email.

Yes, easy enough to find out by email. I can't recall whether others have already said this, but the 10mm Hipshot size fits into Warmoth tuner holes of 25/64". I've done this on several Warmoth necks, including one that was sprayed with their clear gloss finish. Even with any overspray into the holes, the tuners still fit with no extra work needed. Worst case scenario would be a few minutes with sandpaper wrapped around a dowel or pencil, it would be very easy to enlarge by a tiny amount if needed.

 

[teleme01]

I know this should be illegal and the parts caster police should lock me up but this is how my staggered tuners are set up

 

[ruscio]

I know this should be illegal and the parts caster police should lock me up but this is how my staggered tuners are set up View attachment 63452

Did you put the washer on the back? If not, what did leaving it off the front accomplish? Is this an aesthetic preference?

 

[stratamania]

Also, and I'm sure this is what you meant, @stratamania , but to clarify the UMP thickness effectively brings the tuner post down by about another 1mm, further increasing break angle over the nut.

Yes, that is one part of it. The other part of it is that dependent on the thickness of the headstock, that extra 1 mm of the UMP could mean a shorter post height could end up too short.

@Bruce Campbell see my earlier post. A difference of 1 mm in a post height is not going to make any significant difference.

I know this should be illegal and the parts caster police should lock me up but this is how my staggered tuners are set up

I heard a warrant has been issued

 

[teleme01]

Did you put the washer on the back? If not, what did leaving it off the front accomplish? Is this an aesthetic preference?

It gives me better access to the string hole, I didn't realize that the 1mm ump was the reason why there is less access. Esthetic is not good but unnoticeable, I will probably put the washer on eventually.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

Yes, easy enough to find out by email. I can't recall whether others have already said this, but the 10mm Hipshot size fits into Warmoth tuner holes of 25/64". I've done this on several Warmoth necks, including one that was sprayed with their clear gloss finish. Even with any overspray into the holes, the tuners still fit with no extra work needed. Worst case scenario would be a few minutes with sandpaper wrapped around a dowel or pencil, it would be very easy to enlarge by a tiny amount if needed.

i'm buying a new neck with new tuners. i just need the correct dimestions for the tuner hole. seems like all manufactures say "fits 100mm OR 13/24" everything is a "10mm or". warmoth only does standard sized holes (inches") so i don't have holes. i need them drilled to match the tuners i buy.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

Welcome to the guitar world of imperial and metric measurement conversions and rounding.

The tuning peg itself is smaller than the part that is around a modern tuner and goes through the hole. A Schaller has a size of 10mm, and Hipshots and modern Fender types all need a comparable size tuner bore in the headstock. That means with Warmoth the closest is to use 25/64" which is 9.92mm.

You may need to use a reamer or sandpaper wrapped around a dowel or pencil to adjust the holes when fitting, especially if there is any finish that may have got into the holes.

If a manufacturer's dimensions are exact in one system such as 20mm or 0.787" or an unusual fraction, which system do you think they are using?
With Warmoth they use 25/64" which a 9.92mm for a tuner hole size, do you think they use imperial or metric drill bits?


Tuner bore, and shaft dimensions use the diameter of the hole.
Hipshot have not put it on the diagram as they have already mentioned what size post holes 10mm or for vintage 8.5mm each set of tuners is for.

TLDR - Modern tuners, tuner bore size usually 10mm - Fender / Schaller / Hipshot /Sperzel
Vintage tuners - 11/32" or 8.5mm dependent on manufacturer.

Tuner Hole Options

warmoth.com

I can deal with the tuner hole size later. i'll probably just buy and then measure for myself

MY REAL question is, are staggered tuners with posts measuring 18/29/20 better than 19/20/21 (both hipshot models.........and without the UMP plate.

 

[teleme01]

Seems the most common tuners are vintage 8.5mm and 10mm

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

ok.........so as i just posted above.........it's a new neck so i'm going to get tuner holes based on the tuners i buy.
but hipshot and Gotoh have both have another model with different peg heights.

the first set are 18/19/20
second model are 19/20/21

and the conversation got side tracked. i asked
"so do the 18/19/20mm's post have a better break-angle than the 19/20/21's, for flat head-stock w/out tuning trees?

so just riddle me this...........18/19/20 or 19/20/21?

FYI griplock directro fit don't need a mounting screw, but need divot holes drilled (2 per tuner) 16:1 tuners, 10mm or 27/64" compatible tuning holes

the regular griplocks need 1 mounting screw hole drilled.. 18:1 tuners. 10mm or or 27/64" holes.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

Seems the most common tuners are vintage 8.5mm and 10mm

YES!!! so tell me why Warmoth doesn't have an 8.5mm or a 10mm tuning hole option?? those would be spot on and would take the guessing game out of it. don't give me a standard 13/24" "equivalent" hole.......it's clearly NOT equivalent. so why not just use a REAL 10mm or 8.5mm drill bit???
it's not like it's difficult to switch out a drill bit or add a drill press with those installed. why make life difficult. if the manufacture uses millimeters, why not use millimeter drill bits?? better fit. not estimated calculations and having to sand an undersized tuner hole b/c you can't add a 10mm drill bit??
friggin driving me nutz. ok USA, it's now the 21st century!!! the entire world uses metric except for us. lets use inaccurate measurements to build and support our products and foreign products??? "NO" says the USA. "NO" says Warmoth. let's make life interesting buy drilling holes that are literally "incompatible" with tuners made in "metric-countries".

10mm = .3937

25/64 = .390625 (EPIC FAIL!! - too small)
13/32 = .40625......(pretty darn close but we won't recommend them.......)
27/64 = .421875 (oops..........too big (FAIL - too big)

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

I also find inaccurate metric conversion super frustrating. Ideally it would be better to maintain 0.001” precision.

However 25/64” is close enough for 10mm tuners. I actually desire a snug fit for the tuner machine so a little bit of sanding seems normal to me. 13/32” is a sloppy fit, so in my world that is an “EPIC fail”.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

I also find inaccurate metric conversion super frustrating. Ideally it would be better to maintain 0.001” precision.

However 25/64” is close enough for 10mm tuners. I actually desire a snug fit for the tuner machine so a little bit of sanding seems normal to me. 13/32” is a sloppy fit, so in my world that is an “EPIC fail”.

seems to me that 13/32 would be the best fit without having to modify the tuner holes and leaves you .01253" of "play" inside the tuner hole.

 

[ragamuffin]

I also find inaccurate metric conversion super frustrating. Ideally it would be better to maintain 0.001” precision.

However 25/64” is close enough for 10mm tuners. I actually desire a snug fit for the tuner machine so a little bit of sanding seems normal to me. 13/32” is a sloppy fit, so in my world that is an “EPIC fail”.

Yep, I've had Hipshot tuners on a bunch of necks with 25/64" and never had any issue; they fit fine no issue installing or with use.

As for the post heights 18/19/20 on Griplock vs 19/20/21 on Directofit either will work fine. I've always used the open back Griplocks, but 1mm of post height is not going to make an appreciable difference.

 

[ragamuffin]

seems to me that 13/32 would be the best fit without having to modify the tuner holes and leaves you .01253" of "play" inside the tuner hole.

I've never had to modify/ream out the holes on the 25/64

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

I've never had to modify/ream out the holes on the 13/32

you came in a bit late to the thread so here is the short jist.
i was going to get a modern tiltback but some people indicated that the modern tiltback w/ the double trussrod doesn't sound a good as a single trussrod vintage/modern............i was going to do tilt back so i could eliminate friction point....which meant using licking tuners and no string-trees and a good slippery nut.
since il'm a lefty it was harder to locate lefty 6-inline staggered locking tuners.
so finally found some hip-shots that people recommended
1st set are the hipshot griplock tuners that have 3 different staggered sizes.....18/19/20mm, which require 1 screw on the rear side.
2nd, are the hipshot "Fender" Directrofit fit that are 19/20/21. they require2 little holes for the divots that bite into the back of the head-stock

so the topic got zig-zaggy, which is fine b/c you always learn something new.
@stratamania got hipshots but he decided to go with a compound hole that was "schaller 25/64" - 11/32". But from what i read, 25/64th was not a regular option at the time. from his well documented pics it appears that the front is 25/64" and the back end its 11/32" so some part of the tuner peg base is smaller on the backs-side and larger on the front side...........it's just really hard to see the shape of the tuners my my eyes, altough you can see in a closeup of the holes that they were more open on the front and smaller towards the read.............
i haven't been able to pin him down on that question "is the tuner base larger on the front side, smaller on the back-end?................
and then i answered my own question regarding the size of the tuning pegs, because his box is marked 18/19/20mm. so i guess i'll order those tuners an then measure with a micrometer to see the exact dimension.

here is his post

Quilted Purple Strat Build

The out of the box thread with a number of nice pics can be found here. https://unofficialwarmoth.com/threads/purple-quilt-day.22444/ The very first build type shot after taking things out of the box where I did a quick test of the fit of the Hipshot locking tuners that are going on this...

unofficialwarmoth.com

but he and the warmoth rep said to get 25/64" and then sand them a little bit to allow for the 10mm tuner.
my response is why not just use 13/32"?? but he say in the post somewhere that the tuner measurement through the hole is about 9.8"ish diameter (or maybe it was someone else...............so the pegs are not 10mm but 9.8ish mm.........which means a 10 wold be perfect and a 25/64" would be a snug fit and the 13/32" might be a bit waggley......but we are talking millimeters here. so the gap is pretty darn small to begin this.

his tuners might also have different specs, so i should just order mine and then measure them and go from there.............

 

[ruscio]

1. Yes, 18/19/20mm is, in my opinion, slightly better than 19/20/21mm heights. All else being equal, why not have a tiny bit more break angle? Having said that, I doubt this 1mm difference will matter either way, and if I were buying then this difference, in and of itself, would be irrelevant to my purchase decision.

2. Warmoth's 25/64" hole will accommodate most or all tuners advertised as 10mm. I think you're taking the measurements too literally, inferring more precision than is intended, and worrying too much over this. When a manufacturer says 10mm, do we believe that to be 10.000mm, 10.00mm, 10.0mm, or 10mm? I assume the latter, meaning I won't be surprised with anything outside a range of +/- .1 mm. I also don't know how precisely you can count on Warmoth's 25/64" holes measuring up in your hands. I don't doubt the bit on the CNC has that exact dimension, but is there no sanding done afterward, does wood not expand and contract as it changes from their environment to yours, etc? The worst-case scenario, if you order with 25/64" for 10mm tuners, is that you'd need to enlarge the holes by a very, very small amount. A few minutes with a piece of sandpaper wrapped around a pencil and you're done.

As Aaron has mentioned in more than one video, they can't make their parts fit every manufacturer's products perfectly. There are too many options out there, and they change over time, too. Putting together a partscaster often involves some fitting work. The only way to guarantee things fit well is to buy a complete guitar. I honestly don't think you'll have any problem fitting any of the tuners you're looking at into the holes Warmoth drills for modern (as opposed to vintage) tuners, namely the 25/64".

 

[stratamania]

@stratamania got hipshots but he decided to go with a compound hole that was "schaller 25/64" - 11/32". But from what i read, 25/64th was not a regular option at the time. from his well documented pics it appears that the front is 25/64" and the back end its 11/32" so some part of the tuner peg base is smaller on the backs-side and larger on the front side...........it's just really hard to see the shape of the tuners my my eyes, altough you can see in a closeup of the holes that they were more open on the front and smaller towards the read.............

At the time of that thread from about eleven years ago, that stepped tuner bore was required for Schaller tuners and was the best fit that Warmoth offered for the Hipshots I was using.

Since that time, Schaller tuners have a different design and now use a straight hole which also works fine with the Hipshots.

As Warmoth do not offer an actual 10mm bore the best option is 25/64".

seems to me that 13/32 would be the best fit without having to modify the tuner holes and leaves you .01253" of "play" inside the tuner hole.

That is also an option; however, most people prefer a snug fit for tuners and not have play. With the 25/64" if needed it can be reamed or sanded to give a good snug fit.

and then i answered my own question regarding the size of the tuning pegs, because his box is marked 18/19/20mm. so i guess i'll order those tuners an then measure with a micrometer to see the exact dimension.

Excellent.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

1. Yes, 18/19/20mm is, in my opinion, slightly better than 19/20/21mm heights. All else being equal, why not have a tiny bit more break angle? Having said that, I doubt this 1mm difference will matter either way, and if I were buying then this difference, in and of itself, would be irrelevant to my purchase decision.

2. Warmoth's 25/64" hole will accommodate most or all tuners advertised as 10mm. I think you're taking the measurements too literally, inferring more precision than is intended, and worrying too much over this. When a manufacturer says 10mm, do we believe that to be 10.000mm, 10.00mm, 10.0mm, or 10mm? I assume the latter, meaning I won't be surprised with anything outside a range of +/- .1 mm. I also don't know how precisely you can count on Warmoth's 25/64" holes measuring up in your hands. I don't doubt the bit on the CNC has that exact dimension, but is there no sanding done afterward, does wood not expand and contract as it changes from their environment to yours, etc? The worst-case scenario, if you order with 25/64" for 10mm tuners, is that you'd need to enlarge the holes by a very, very small amount. A few minutes with a piece of sandpaper wrapped around a pencil and you're done.

As Aaron has mentioned in more than one video, they can't make their parts fit every manufacturer's products perfectly. There are too many options out there, and they change over time, too. Putting together a partscaster often involves some fitting work. The only way to guarantee things fit well is to buy a complete guitar. I honestly don't think you'll have any problem fitting any of the tuners you're looking at into the holes Warmoth drills for modern (as opposed to vintage) tuners, namely the 25/64".

yeah, i'm super guilty of "over-thinking" things.
i did happen to buy those tuners last night off of ebay, so i'll be able to measure them w/ a micrometer when they show up!

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

At the time of that thread from about eleven years ago, that stepped tuner bore was required for Schaller tuners and was the best fit that Warmoth offered for the Hipshots I was using.

Since that time, Schaller tuners have a different design and now use a straight hole which also works fine with the Hipshots.

As Warmoth do not offer an actual 10mm bore the best option is 25/64".



That is also an option; however, most people prefer a snug fit for tuners and not have play. With the 25/64" if needed it can be reamed or sanded to give a good snug fit.



Excellent.

so i re-read your post on the blue guitar and was fascinated by all of it....especially the finishing of the unfinished guitar neck. it looks absolutely amazing!

maybe you can answer a finishing question for me.
i'm going with a clear satin-nitro finish on a plain maple neck. i thought about going with the vintage "tint" finish but it is a bit to dark for my taste. if i could somehow achieve a finish that was 1/3 or 1/2 the tint of the vintage tint satin nitro, i'd be stoked! i'm not sure if the satin finish is "pore-ish" or not. perhaps there is a product that i can just rub onto the neck (post satin finish) to get it a little bit darker but not quite as dark and the tint that they offer. (?)

i might have to post this to the FB guitar and finishes message board for answers.