recessed TOM angled, arched, or staggered

[Blakeah]

So I am building a Jazzmaster body and I have decided to use a recessed TOM bridge rout.  This is my first build so I am an open book.  My question here is twofold

1.  Do the different string through patterns change playability, tone, staying in tune, ect....  what are the pros and ons of each?

2.  Is there a specific bridge that you would recommend for the recessed TOM rout?

(I am going to be using a tele neck with two bare knuckle humbuckers) <-- Thoughts?

 

[pabloman]

Normally I hate the way an arched pattern looks but as soon as I read its goin on a jazzy I thought it might be doable. Only because the guitar is really curvy and that arch kind of suggests the O.G. bridge plate.

 

[Blakeah]

Is there any difference in the way the string through patterns react, or are the three options merely for aesthetics?

 

[anorakDan]

I would guess the differences are merely aesthetic, really. I'm sure someone could come up with an argument for tonal differences, but I'm pretty sure the real difference in the sounds are more between than within the ears.

Pick the one you think looks best. I've always had a fondness for the staggered option.

 

[Ace Flibble]

The further the string-through holes are from the bridge, the less pressure there is on the strings as they come over the bridge saddles. This can result in lower tension when bending. Though if the angle over the bridge saddles is too shallow the string can sound dull and not ring out properly. So the theory is, arched gives you the easiest bending but the weakest tone. Staggered gives you a tighter-feeling 4th string and a looser 3rd. Angled reverses that.

However, that's all just theory and in practice there shouldn't be any noticable difference. It's not like a stopbar bridge where you can raise it so high the strings pass over the saddles completely flat, or at the neck where you may or may not use string trees or compare an angled headstock to a straight one. In those instances you can definitely notice a difference in the feel and sound of the strings. The difference between the three string-through patterns is so much smaller that I severely doubt you'd see any benefits or problems with any of them.

 

[Corey P.]

Really all you're interested in is a good break angle over the saddles to ensure enough tension on the strings - I'm pretty sure any of W's three options will work well for this.  If you happen to be into Wilco I know their lead player sometimes plays the strings behind the bridge as single notes (though he uses a Mastery Bridge with the standard Jazzmaster tremolo); whatever pitches you happen to get won't change a ton between the three options, and are unlikely to be a major consideration (and I'm sure will be off by quite a few cents no matter what).

If you're going with a TOM bridge, Tone Pros seems well designed, if pricey.  I personally don't mind the Gotoh TOM, but I don't play a ton of Gibson style bridges to have a very informed opinion.

 

[Cagey]

Is there any difference in the way the string through patterns react, or are the three options merely for aesthetics?

The short answer is: there's no difference, it's purely for aesthetics.

The "theory" that overall string length has anything to do with playability or "slinkiness" is not a theory at all, it's a failed hypothesis. Physics says "no" right out of the box so it never graduates to theory, let alone fact. But, it's still a long-standing myth in the guitar world that many will argue incessantly.

The string could be 17.2 inches or 74.9 miles long, but given a certain length and string mass you still have to stretch it to a certain tension to get it to vibrate at a specific frequency. That never changes. It's so predictable, there are published charts on it.

On a guitar, the "certain length" is the scale, not the overall length. The mass is usually the gauge, although there are different string materials used so that can change. The frequency is the note you tune it to.

So, do what you want. If it looks good to you, then it is good.

 

[Blakeah]

Thanks.  This is what I needed to hear!  happy guitar building!

 

[JaySwear]

I wish they would do a reverse arch. Instead of the arch pointing towards the bridge it would be pointing away. I think it would look really cool! I can dream.

 

[Cagey]

I'm sure if you called Warmoth and told them you didn't want any through-holes drilled, they could accommodate you. Once the body shows up, whip out your drill motor and teach that body a lesson.

 

[pabloman]

The tension between the saddle and the nut is pre determined by the pitch and gauge of the string along with the scale of the guitar. The amount of tension a string has after the nut and saddle most definately affect the feel of strings while bending notes. This is because the nut and saddle are not the string's final anchoring point, the tuner and the tailpiece are. I don't see how someone can grasp the concept of string tension in regards to gauge scale and pitch yet can absolutely in no way apply those very same principals to the length of string between a bridge and a tailpiece or a nut and a tuner. The very same physics they claim disproves this actually proves this.

 

[Cagey]

So... you think the tension between the nut/tuners or the bridge/tailpiece is different than the tension between the nut and the bridge? It better not be, or you'll suffer tuning problems as the tension shifts through normal play. It's usually referred to as "hanging up", which would be due to friction. That's why so much effort has been put into either reducing/eliminating that friction with slick surfaces, bearings or clamping compression at those points. A sharp breakover point is death on free movement, especially on spring steel, which is one of the reasons why string trees and TOM bridges are less than ideal.

The tension on a string is the same throughout its length, but we're only concerned with it's speaking length, more commonly referred to as the scale length. However, since it's the same, it doesn't matter. If you need 9.10 lbs of pull on a 10 gauge string to get "B" note at 24.75" scale, the string can be 500 miles long and it'll still need to have 9.10 lbs. of tension between the points 24.75" apart to sound a "B" note. I know it's counter-intuitive, but it's true. You'd think it would be slinky/sloppy as hell, but it's not. Increase the speaking length to 25.5", and you'll have to increase the tension to maybe 9.3 lbs. Oddly enough, the longer the speaking length gets, the tighter you'll have to make the string to sound the same note, regardless of the overall length of the string.

 

[pabloman]

Cagey your tutorial only supports everything I'm saying.

 

[AutoBat]

Pick whichever looks the best to you. The spacing only matters if you've got mythic hearing like Eric Johnson claims to have.

 

[Ace Flibble]

@Cagey.
Grab a guitar with a tune-o-matic and stopbar bridge. Set the stopbar as far down as it will go, tune to pitch, bend a note. Now raise ths stopbar so the strings come over the saddles at a much shallower angle. Tune to pitch, bend the same note. Note how much easier it is to bend. The same can been seen with straight headstocks, playing with string trees and then taking the string trees off.

This is the main reason why some people 'topwrap' stopbar tailpieces. It provides the shallower angle over the sadlles for easier bends but the stopbar can remain set as far down as possible. Personally, I topwrap my 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th strings and string the 5th and 6th as normal. It does make bending easier.

And before you say "you were told it'd make bending easier and you believed it because you wanted to", I actually had no idea why stopbars could be raised or why anyone would topwrap strings. I had never been told what the benefits or drawbacks could be. I just tried it for myself and instantly noticed how the raised strings were now easier to bend. I can't claim to understands all the phsyics of it, nor have I picked up anything from a stuck-in-the-mud tech who believes in guitar voodoo. All I know is I did it, and this happened.

edit: to be clear, I'm talking about feling and hearing a difference between fairly drastic changes. I maintain that in the case of comparing Warmoth's three string-through patterns, you likely won't notice any particular difference.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

This is an old argument with a lot of problems.  Primarily being vocabulary.  Tension, as it applies to the string, is what you use to tune your guitar.  The break angle and subsequent "tension" at the nut or bridge should be referred to as something else, like friction.  The greater the break angle, the greater the friction at that point, and the more resistance to movement.

I might have used the wrong term here for the resistance to movement.  Honestly, I don't care too much, I understand what is going on.  But, this being a forum, these details are the things that epically long and heated posts are made of.  And to be precise (Thanks Thomson and Thompson) tension refers the mass placed longitudinally on the string. 

Another item of note, Tone Pros bridges and Gotoh bridges are essentially the same.  The Tone Pros ones have set screws added to them.  As far as sound goes, this does not do anything of great or any effect.  But, some people like the set screws, so the option is there if you are one of those.

Finally, The Jazzmaster shape is offset, and the recessed TOM bridge string through holes are also offset.  But in different directions.  So make sure you like the body angles with the string hole angles as it might make you eyes tell you something is off going in the opposite directions.  It might not, but I wanted to mention it.
Patrick