Warmoth vs Gibson Explorer shape

[Xplorervoodoo]

I know I'm kinda late, but if I can find a tape measure, I can take some dimension measurements of my Voodoo Explorer...

If that'll help any? :dontknow:

 

[R n R Dr]

Voodoo Explorer?  Is that what you call your Warmoth?  Or is that some other company's version of the Explorer?

See what I plan to measure in reply 17 above.  Could you get those measurements?

Oh, one other thing I figured out with help from another guitar guy here: we can also try to match up and scale from the necks themselves.  Distance from the 12th fret to the 3rd or 1st, or to the 21st, for example.  But then it still has to scale, 25.5 to 24.75 if appropriate.  Also, the one picture of a Warmoth Explorer I was using, the guy here spotted that it was not taken straight on to the guitar.  The body was closer to the camera than the nut, for example.

Man !

 

[Xplorervoodoo]

It's a model of the Explorer Gibson produced called the "Voodoo"...  Black paintjob, open grain (reddish tinge)  Red Skull at 5th fret, Red and Black zebra pickups.

The only thing I know for sure is that the scale is 24 3/4"

I can't seem to find a tape measure...  :tard:

 

[ognolman]

I think it's just a question of how everything is getting scaled.

Yes, but here's what I'm trying to say: if the neck pocket is scaled correctly, then the whole body should be scaled correctly.  So if I use the Gibson neck pocket as my gauge to scale the Warmoth, then it should be scaled accurately.  The neck pocket is not perfect, but it should at least be close enough for this simple comparison.  As it happens, when I got the neck pocket scaled pretty closely, the neck pickup also fell in line, further confirming my theory.

JBD

 

[R n R Dr]

Xplorervoodoo - Yes, yes, yours would help.  And then we should also be able to spot if yours is the '76 reissue size, or the Pro (Explorer 90) size.

You have a picture?  I'm curious what it looks like!   :hello2:

JDB: the problem is that the neck pocket is only 2 or 3 inches wide, and we trying to match up bodies that are 25 - 27" diag.  A small error at 2-3" gets blown up at 25-27", so the comparison might not be that accurate.  But I see what you're saying.

We'll have better/more measurements soon enough.  One other thing that's on my list of things to do: when you look at the pictures in the Gallery, some people include their email ids.  That way, we could get real measurements of a Warmoth body vs however Warmoth is getting them to me.  (I suspect they are looking at schemetics, but still should be valid.)  But at the very least, it would be  validating data!

And I'm still going to try my manual cut and paste too!!

 

[Xplorervoodoo]

You have a picture?  I'm curious what it looks like!

Yep, here she is, complete with the skull knobs I just got for her...  arty07:

I don't seem to have a tape measure, but I'll pick one up tomorrow after work and take her measurements

 

[R n R Dr]

I like it!  arty07:  How could that not be a Shred machine?!?!  (I bet it's worth some coin too, specialty model an' all ...)

 

[Xplorervoodoo]

Yep, she was pretty expensive, but she's mine now, and I'm never gettin rid of her.

and I suppose it could be a shred machine, if I could shred...  :tard:

 

[ognolman]

JDB: the problem is that the neck pocket is only 2 or 3 inches wide, and we trying to match up bodies that are 25 - 27" diag.  A small error at 2-3" gets blown up at 25-27", so the comparison might not be that accurate.  But I see what you're saying.

Right, well I actually did it realizing the limitations of the medium I had to work with.  I wasn't expecting a super-high level of accuracy, I just wanted to get the general idea.  I think my graphic captured that fairly well.  But I have another...  This time I pulled an explorer from the Musicians Friend website into Corel Draw and traced the outline.  Did the same for a Warmoth Body.  Then I created two lines that were 27" and 27.5", scaled them down equally.  Then scaled the body outlines up to match the diagonal dimensions you gave, using the lines as my ruler.  So this graphic should illustrate some interesting differences:

<image removed>

A couple of points (no pun intended)-- the pickup rout of the warmoth looks smaller than the Gibson, but the neck widths at the heel lined up very nicely.
Anway, the orangy-colored one is the Warmoth, the clear is the Gibson.  But I still can't tell you how accurate this is.  The fact that the neck lines up so well seems to confirm that it is more accurate.  The pickup problem is likely just because (a) the image was so fuzzy on the pickup rout of the Warmoth and (b) the Gibson pickup was installed, so it had a trim ring around it.

JBD

 

[R n R Dr]

JBD- Did you use a Gibson Explorer body?  Or the Explorer Pro?  Look likes an Explorer as that one would be/should be bigger than the Warmoth ... based on Warmoth saying their's is based on the smaller Pro body.  ==>>  OK: you used 27" which would be the Explorer.    The Pro is 25".

If I mentally shrink the outlined Explorer body by 10% (roughly the difference between the Explorer and the Pro), then that upper right bolt of the Warmoth is way big, just like we thought, but the bottoms begin to match up better.  Wierd how the entire Warmoth body seems shifted to the right vs the Gibson.  But the angles all appear to be very close if not dead on too, which is good.  (Well ... *except* for the inside of the upper right bolt.)

I *keep* trying to decide whether it's worth it to get Warmoth's and try to shape it to the correct (or ... close enough!) size, or just have them do a custom Gibson Pro body ...  But then somehow I'd need to get them a trace of the Pro.

This is very useful.  I appreciate it very much !!   :headbang1:

 

[ognolman]

JBD- Did you use a Gibson Explorer body?  Or the Explorer Pro?  Look likes an Explorer as that one would be/should be bigger than the Warmoth ... based on Warmoth saying their's is based on the smaller Pro body.  ==>>  OK: you used 27" which would be the Explorer.    The Pro is 25".

I used the "Natural" photo from this listing:

http://tinyurl.com/y7etc5

But the angles all appear to be very close if not dead on too, which is good.  (Well ... *except* for the inside of the upper right bolt.)

There is also the little slope from the neck joint to the upper-left bout.  I think that little slope is important because it keeps the shape from looking blocky and mimicks the arc of the rear.

I *keep* trying to decide whether it's worth it to get Warmoth's and try to shape it to the correct (or ... close enough!) size, or just have them do a custom Gibson Pro body ...  But then somehow I'd need to get them a trace of the Pro.

This is very useful.  I appreciate it very much !!   :headbang1:

Good luck with your project!

JBD

 

[Xplorervoodoo]

Ok, I know it's a little late, but here's what I got...

 

[R n R Dr]

Thanks.  I did something similar to JBD.  It was a pain in the arse, but I traced out the Warmoth, and then I superimposed it over the best *straight on* picture I could find of a Pro. (Each scaled, Warmoth = 27" and Pro = 25" lower left tip to upper right tip.)  The Pro picture at MF and other places is an edge on view because, neck to the right, you can see the bottom edge of the guitar.

They are a fair amount different. 

I'd be curious as to what y'all think.  There are a few ways of thinking about this.  a) They are not, and cannot be made identical.  For some, that'd be it.  b) Can the Warmoth be modded to get "close enough"?  The biggest changes IMO would be that upper right bolt, and the upper left little bolt.  c) If you didn't have the direct comparion like this, and the Warmoth was shaped, could you be happy with it?  There *are* some things about Warmoth's shape that I do like, though.  I guess maybe it really depends on if a person is after the spirit of the Explorer, and Warmoth certainly does OK there, but if a person is looking for a straight copy, that ain't gonna happen.  Warmoth can do custom shapes, but they cost more too...

 

[ognolman]

The Pro picture at MF and other places is an edge on view because, neck to the right, you can see the bottom edge of the guitar.

Yes, I had trouble finding a nice straight-on shot.  I used the natural from their group because it was the closest and had good contrast.  But it was still very slightly angled.

They are a fair amount different. 

Yes-- it looks like the Warmoth explorer is some kind of averaging of the two models.  With the exception of the upper right bout-- the big pointy part.  But I agree with you-- the Warmoth is not a bad looking shape, just not as good as one might hope.  I looked at the gallery of some completed models and they do look nice.  And to the casual observer, they are identical.  I think you could mod the Warmoth to be a closer likeness of the Gibson, but you would have to be very careful.  I think you could bring it close enough to where it would be almost impossible to tell the difference without a Gibson nearby to compare it to.

I guess maybe it really depends on if a person is after the spirit of the Explorer, and Warmoth certainly does OK there, but if a person is looking for a straight copy, that ain't gonna happen.  Warmoth can do custom shapes, but they cost more too...

Yes, but this is what makes the Warmoth Explorer a little disappointing.  In all their other designs they seem to be dead-on perfect.  Why is the Explorer so different?  I guess it doesn't really matter all that much, but I am curious to know.

BTW, that is a sweet-looking pro you found...

JBD

 

[R n R Dr]

And to the casual observer, they are identical.  I think you could mod the Warmoth to be a closer likeness of the Gibson, but you would have to be very careful.  I think you could bring it close enough to where it would be almost impossible to tell the difference without a Gibson nearby to compare it to.

Bingo !  This is exactly what I'm thinking.  I think Warmoth does have  a license with Fender, so that allows them to do direct copies of Strats.  (Warmoth even told me that the "Explorer" was a "Strat shaped like an Explorer".)  Maybe even their Les Paul is subtly different from the real thing.

Since this is an unofficial Warmoth site, when I do my Explorer, I'll actually work with a local Luthier that I really like.  Anyway, he's talking to a buddy of his at USA Custom to see if they could (or have done) an exact Explorer body.  (Not on their web site though.)

I'll report back.

 

[SrDeMaFp]

When I do my explorer build I'm gonna order the body from another site (their copy has more exacting dimensions) and order my neck from Warmoth.

 

[R n R Dr]

When I do my explorer build I'm gonna order the body from another site (their copy has more exacting dimensions) and order my neck from Warmoth.

I might end up doing the same thing.  I've actually heard quite good things about Warmoth necks.  Just curious, what other site are you talking about? 

 

[R n R Dr]

Charvel did an Explorer in the '80s ... but it looks exactly like Warmoth's body to me!

 

[R n R Dr]

And ...

 

[ognolman]

And ...

Well. I think you've nailed it there,,,

JBD