Warmoth vs Gibson Explorer shape

AndyG

Senior member
Messages
562
Hello everyone!

Does anyone have a pic of the Warmoth Explorer next to a Gibson Explorer?  I know that the Warmoth's lower cutaway is "pointier", but it seems there are other subtle differences in the two shapes.

Thanx for any help!
 

R n R Dr

Active member
Messages
28
One more, I also plan to do a Warmoth-based Explorer.  Another question: there are two body sizes for Gibson: the original (current '76 reissue) size (the one with the pickguard), and the smaller Pro model (no pickguard).

Can someone already with this body tell me what this dimension is?

Thanks!!


explorersize.jpg
 

Orpheo

Senior member
Messages
2,738
R n R Dr said:
One more, I also plan to do a Warmoth-based Explorer.  Another question: there are two body sizes for Gibson: the original (current '76 reissue) size (the one with the pickguard), and the smaller Pro model (no pickguard).

Can someone already with this body tell me what this dimension is?

Thanks!!


explorersize.jpg

[/quote

that model is the full sized model. the pro-version is just 90% of the normal size. dont know exact dimensions, sorry.
 

Ted

Senior member
Messages
526
Warmoth Explorer looks wrong IMO. I dunno I just don't like it.  :dontknow:
 

R n R Dr

Active member
Messages
28
>  that model is the full sized model. the pro-version is just 90% of the normal size. dont know exact dimensions, sorry

Orpheo- This is the Explorer Shred X version.  Actually, I am independently checking with Gibson because I do think it's the smaller Pro body (no pickguard), vs the original (current '76 reissue) model (that has a pickguard).  Also, the knob/switch holes are in the Pro style too (lower left to upper right) vs the original (upper left to lower right).  (Neck pointing to the right.)

Warmoth said that their shape was based on the Pro model.  But yeah, it does look a little odd.  That lower front cutaway is also longer than Gibson's.

I really want a custom Explorer, and I'm almost debating buying a Pro model, sending it to Warmoth so they can get the correct shape, and then selling it, then doing my own.
 

AndyG

Senior member
Messages
562
From the research I've done, it looks like the Warmoth Explorer shape is closer to the ESP model than the Gibson.  Is that right?

I've always found that bodystyle really comfortable to play, and would really like to build one.  However, the pictures on Warmoth's website of the bodies without the neck do look a little awkward compared to the Gibson.  Anyone that has a pic of a finished Warmoth Explorer, please share!!!!!
 

GoDrex

Senior member
Messages
3,619
you guys are bumming me out - I'm planning to do and explorer next year and I've never noticed anything bad about Warmoth's version. I can see it's not exactly the same but it looks fine to me... not different enough to be bad looking IMO. Stop making me second guess! :tard:
 

ognolman

Senior member
Messages
351
This should help illustrate the differences:

Edit: photo removed.

The pale outline is the Warmoth Explorer shape and a Gibson explorer image underneath.  I used the pickup rout and the neck for reference, but you can see that I didn't scale up the Warmoth image quite enough.  But you can still see some fairly obvious differences in them.  I looked at James Hetfield's ESP Explorer body and it looks more like the Gibson.  But it is entirely possible that they used a different model for their  template or something.  Maybe Gibson wouldn't license an exact copy of the shape or some legal thing.

I think that I would probably have to reshape it if I bought one.  If nothing else, I would shape the top of the body at the neck joint to be a little sleeker looking.  Maybe knock off a little bit of the point and round the bottom...  It wouldn't be hard to do if you have a bandsaw or spindle sander or router or whatever...

Edit: Ironically, Warmoth may have done a better job of capturing the 'lightning bolt' motif that Gibson was looking for in the design of the Explorer.  IMHO.

JBD
 

R n R Dr

Active member
Messages
28
ognolman- You rock.  :headbang:  I really appreciate that comparison.

My biggest problem is, the way your picture is oriented, that upper right "bolt".  Too long and too sharp.  But you're right, probably pretty easy to shape that thing off to be closer to Gibson's.

Also, for comparison, again from how your picture is, I measured from the lower left bolt to the upper right at a music store.  The Pro model measures 25", the 76 reissue is 27.5".  I asked Warmoth, and they said that their's is 27".  But shaping the worst of the bolt off would get you close to the Pro size.

You know what might be interesting?  If you rotated the Warmoth outline slightly clockwise to better match up with the Gibson.  Yeah, the neck and upper pickup would be off, but it'd be interesting to see how much closer they are...

(I tried this in MS Photo Editor, and it won't do rotations like that correctly.  Oh well ...)

I did ask Warmoth about this, and they pointed me to the custom body section of their web site.  Basically, send in the outline of what I want and they'll do it.  I kind of thought the same thing about copyrights, and legal stuff for why they didn't do a more exact representation of the Explorer.
 

ognolman

Senior member
Messages
351
R n R Dr said:
ognolman- You rock.   :headbang:  I really appreciate that comparison.

LOL, glad I could help.  I'll probably take that photo down soon, so if you want to keep it you might want to get it now.  I'll leave it up for a while, though.

R n R Dr said:
Also, for comparison, again from how your picture is, I measured from the lower left bolt to the upper right at a music store.  The Pro model measures 25", the 76 reissue is 27.5".  I asked Warmoth, and they said that their's is 27".  But shaping the worst of the bolt off would get you close to the Pro size.

I have difficulty believing that the Warmoth measurement is smaller than any of the Gibson shapes.  But it is possible that the Warmoth shape has changed since the photo was taken. 

I used Paint Shop Pro for the image.  I just used the "magic wand" tool to select the body outline from the Warmoth photo, inverted it, contracted it by two pixels, then added another selection of the outline, inverted all of the selections then cut the remaining selection, which would be a perfect, 2-pixel-wide outline of the body shape.  I then copied that image and pasted into the Gibson image as a new layer.  I can slide the pasted layer around and make it transparent.

It sounds more complicated than it is.

R n R Dr said:
You know what might be interesting?  If you rotated the Warmoth outline slightly clockwise to better match up with the Gibson.  Yeah, the neck and upper pickup would be off, but it'd be interesting to see how much closer they are...

If I get a chance I'll try it tonight.

JBD
 

R n R Dr

Active member
Messages
28
JBD- I did ask Warmoth about their size vs the '76 reissue and the smaller Pro.  They did say their's was based on the Pro.  But they didn't know exactly where their shape came from (or why it's a little different :) ).

I do want to go back and do some more measurements so see how different they really are.  And if you do get a chance to do that rotation ...  ;)  (I did save the current picture, and I appreciate you saying how you did it.  If you don't get a chance to do that rotation exercise, I might have to do it myself!)

I started looking at the Carvin V220, but I don't think they'll customize it to the degree that I want.  And I like the Explorer body more too.
 

ognolman

Senior member
Messages
351
R n R Dr said:
I do want to go back and do some more measurements so see how different they really are.  And if you do get a chance to do that rotation ...  ;)   (I did save the current picture, and I appreciate you saying how you did it.  If you don't get a chance to do that rotation exercise, I might have to do it myself!)

I had to work until the wee hours last night, so I didn't get to do a new graphic, sorry.

R n R Dr said:
I started looking at the Carvin V220, but I don't think they'll customize it to the degree that I want.  And I like the Explorer body more too.

I've always liked the V220 shape.  I'm thinking about how I can make a bass version...

JBD
 

R n R Dr

Active member
Messages
28
JDB- See if you can do that rotation.  I actually don't have any software that can do it.  (But if I get motivated today, I might actually do a manual cut and paste version ... with scissors and paper!)  There are a lot of pictures of other Warmoth builder's Explorers in the Gallery section on Warmoth's site.

One other thing I figured I'd put here too.  I have a distinct preference for the 24.75" scale length.  (Gibson Les Paul and Explorer lengths.  Strats are 25.5".  24.75" = 22 frets.  25.5" = 24 frets.  PRS, being as smart as they are, offer both lengths on most of their guitars.)  All of Warmoths bodies are setup as 25.5".  But ... and I don't know if this is on their web site or not, the guy I'm emailing back and forth with says you can get a "conversion" neck to create a 24.75" setup with their bodies.


And ... Gibson did get back to me about the Shred X.  It is, IMO unfortunately, based on the larger '76 reissue sized Explorer.
 

GoDrex

Senior member
Messages
3,619
R n R Dr said:
  Strats are 25.5".  24.75" = 22 frets.  25.5" = 24 frets. 

  All of Warmoths bodies are setup as 25.5".  But ... and I don't know if this is on their web site or not, the guy I'm emailing back and forth with says you can get a "conversion" neck to create a 24.75" setup with their bodies.

Funny how most strats have 21 frets ;)

I have a conversion neck on my LP - yeah it it's an option the website.
 

AndyG

Senior member
Messages
562
ognolman said:
This should help illustrate the differences:

5axakn


The pale outline is the Warmoth Explorer shape and a Gibson explorer image underneath.  I used the pickup rout and the neck for reference, but you can see that I didn't scale up the Warmoth image quite enough.  But you can still see some fairly obvious differences in them.  I looked at James Hetfield's ESP Explorer body and it looks more like the Gibson.  But it is entirely possible that they used a different model for their  template or something.  Maybe Gibson wouldn't license an exact copy of the shape or some legal thing.

I think that I would probably have to reshape it if I bought one.  If nothing else, I would shape the top of the body at the neck joint to be a little sleeker looking.  Maybe knock off a little bit of the point and round the bottom...  It wouldn't be hard to do if you have a bandsaw or spindle sander or router or whatever...

Edit: Ironically, Warmoth may have done a better job of capturing the 'lightning bolt' motif that Gibson was looking for in the design of the Explorer.  IMHO.

JBD

That is a cool comparision ...
So it seems that the areas "above" and "below" the neck joint are where the differences are greatest.  It also seems that the Warmoth body is slightly larger.
I'd still like to see a full body-and-neck shot of a completed Warmoth Explorer.  All the pics on the Warmoth site show mostly body only.
There is probably going to be a 24 3/4 conversion Explorer somewhere in my future .........     :icon_thumright:
 

R n R Dr

Active member
Messages
28
It also seems that the Warmoth body is slightly larger.

No.  The picture has been scaled for the comparison.  Like I mentioned, in that picture, lower left tip to upper right tip, Warmoth's is 27".  Gibson's '76 reissue is 27.5, and the Pro is 25".

>  24.75" = 22 frets.  25.5" = 24 frets.

Well, these are PRS numbers that I remember.  :)
 

ognolman

Senior member
Messages
351
R n R Dr said:
It also seems that the Warmoth body is slightly larger.

No.  The picture has been scaled for the comparison.  Like I mentioned, in that picture, lower left tip to upper right tip, Warmoth's is 27".  Gibson's '76 reissue is 27.5, and the Pro is 25".

Actually, yes, it has been scaled for comparison, but the Warmoth image should be very close to 1:1 scale.  The only reason I had to scale it up was because the photos were taken at different distances from the guitars and the photos themselves resized to fit their respective frames on the web page.  But I was using the neck and pickup as my guide for scaling up, so it should be very close.  I was trying to scale it so that the heel of the neck of the Gibson matched the neck pocket rout of the Warmoth.  In fact, I needed to scale it up a couple more pixels to be totally accurate, which would make the Warmoth even larger.  The Warmoth outline is actually slightly smaller than in reality.  So I would agree that the Warmoth shape really is larger.

Which was the reason for my comment that I can't imagine any Gibson Explorer being larger than the Warmoth in the dimension you are talking about, because that lower point is jutting out quite a bit past the Gibson.  I expect that if you ordered the Warmoth pickguard it would be longer than any Gibson pickguard.

Edit: I noticed that Warmoth has a disclaimer on their Explorer pickguards page that it is not intended as a retrofit for non-Warmoth Explorers.

JBD
 

R n R Dr

Active member
Messages
28
> So I would agree that the Warmoth shape really is larger.

Can't be, unless the numbers that Warmoth themselves gave me are wrong.  I'm not sure how you can get to 1:1, when we don't have an absolute comparison for any of the pictures?  Nothing can be 1:1 unless you have a 27.5" picture for Gibson's 27.5" body diagonal, point to point.  :)  See what I mean?

I plan to go back to the guitar store tomorrow and get more dimensions, and then I'll send those to Warmoth and get their numbers.

Using the proper picture this time, this is what I plan to measure:  Say if there's any others that I should get ...

 

ognolman

Senior member
Messages
351
R n R Dr said:
Can't be, unless the numbers that Warmoth themselves gave me are wrong.  I'm not sure how you can get to 1:1, when we don't have an absolute comparison for any of the pictures?  Nothing can be 1:1 unless you have a 27.5" picture for Gibson's 27.5" body diagonal, point to point.  :)  See what I mean?

I actually meant that the scale of the Gibson photo vs. the scale of the Warmoth photo should be equal since the neck pickup and neck pocket line up so well.  It is possible that the numbers Warmoth gave are incorrect, just as it is possible that I have not scaled the warmoth outline correctly.  If I scaled them correctly then it is unlikely that their number is correct.  Judging by how long then lower cutaway seems, I can't see how their number is correct.  But without an actual body to measure it is impossible to tell for sure.

JBD

 

R n R Dr

Active member
Messages
28
I think it's just a question of how everything is getting scaled.

Because I'm curious, I have actually now really cut and pasted.  :)  I have a picture of a real Warmoth from the Gallery, and a picture of the real Gibson Explorer.  I then printed each out, and scaled them so at least the dimensions I have so far are correct.  (27" for Warmoth and 25" for the Pro.)  Then I put one of them on a transparency. 

Two things seem apparent *if* Warmoth's 27" number is right: they told me the Warmoth is based on the Pro, and scaled *this* way, the bodies do line up, sort of.  But that one Warmoth "bolt" is a far amount longer than the Gibson.  Two, neck to the right, Warmoth has a far amount more material on the lower left bolt too.

I'm trying to figure out how to get what I'm seeing with this kind of comparison up here.  Somehow I need colors, or lighter and darker to make it easier to see.

Stay tuned ...

Added: This is more complicated than I thought, because there's more than 1 way to try and line them up.  I can line them up across those 2 longest bolts, or I can line them up trying to match up the necks and two pickups (plus the bridge).  But because I'm assuming the Warmoth I have pictured is a 25.5" scale length, and Gibson's is 24.75", I'm not sure I should do it that way though.
 
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