Shootout 01 - Pick The Imposter!

[Superlizard]

Technical difffff-fff-fff-fficulties have been fixed (thanks, friggin' Soundclick)...

Each clip was made with a different amp, but one of these clips was made with a modeling amp... which one?

Clip One:

http://storage1.soundclick.com/jarry_DL/59/04/vipdownload/lizardpie+t00bemushootout1.mp3

Clip Two:

http://streamer2.soundclick.com/jarry_DL/33/05/vipdownload/lizardpie+t00bemushootout2.mp3

Clip Three:

http://streamer2.soundclick.com/jarry_DL/34/04/vipdownload/lizardpie+t00bemushootout3.mp3

==========================================================================

This'll be my first T00b vs. Modeler shootout test... I have other ideas as well.

This is *not* a "I can get my modeler to sound just like "X" t00b amp" test... this is a test to
show the differences between a real (and good) t00b amp & a modeler.  Therefore, each clip
will have its own unique tone.  There's clean stuff (as in "vol knob down"), jazzy stuff, single
note stuff and rockin' stuff.  Some played on bridge pup, others on neck.  Stomp box for
each amp was *always* on.

Warning!  Each clip is 12MB in size.

Specs for this shootout (2 real t00b amps, 1 fake!):

- Guitar - Carvin DC150 w/ Seth Lovers

- Stomp - MI Audio Crunchbox

- T00b amp - Marshall JTM45RI (modded to 60's specs - Mullard pre's / THD Yellowjackets) into a Celestion Alnico Gold 1X12

- T00b amp - '67 blackface Fender Deluxe combo (all original glass - original Oxford speaker)

- Guitar Rig 3 on "Plex" amp with Matched Cabinet - "Skreamer" stomp (dialed everything in as best as I could stand it - heh)

- Shure SM57 for real t00b amp micing

- Adobe Audition & Reaper for editing/finalizing

- Waves plugin for a touch of 'verb

- Recorded 24bit, 44kHz - converted to .mp3 at 320kbps

...and pardon the rust...  :guitaristgif:

Y'all have a week then voting closes... votes are hidden, and no changing allowed, so pick right the first time...

 

[jackthehack]

Do you realize you've left clues in the descriptions and MP3 track tags?

 

[nathan a]

This is a neat idea SL. I'm off to a job interview, but will listen later and vote!

 

[GoDrex]

Do you realize you've left clues in the descriptions and MP3 track tags?

yeah what's up with that?

unless this is like God putting dinosaur fossils all over to throw us off.  :laughing7:

the number 2 file has a kind of digital crispiness to it that I don't like. Maybe it's the way GR3 is or maybe it's too much treble or presence. Either way I don't really care for it, though the sound of the distortion is nice at times. I don't have the crispy problem with my amp so I'm going to just guess that GR3 isn't as good in that area. But I don't know what it is coming from really.
There seems like a lot of noise on the track. Maybe it is an amp and SL's tags are a ruse. Oh I'm so confused now.  :laughing7:

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Do you realize you've left clues in the descriptions and MP3 track tags?

yeah what's up with that?

unless this is like God putting dinosaur fossils all over to throw us off.  :laughing7:

Yeah what's up with that?  :icon_jokercolor:

Why set the modeler to sound like a 3rd amp instead of one of the other two you have tracks of?

GR 3 is a computer program, which is fine. But when I talk about modeler, I'm thinking along the lines of a PODXTLive ot ToneLab LE unit that can and will get plugged into some type of power amp and cabs.

 

[yyz2112]

Since the OP is so biased against digital units, this isn't a fair comparison.

 

[Superlizard]

Do you realize you've left clues in the descriptions and MP3 track tags?

Thanks for being honest Jack - you're right... stupid Soundclick.  LOL

RESETTING!   :icon_thumright:

(heh heh heh)

 

[jimh]

Bit of a Thin Lizzy fan SL?  ccasion14:

 

[Superlizard]

Bit of a Thin Lizzy fan SL?   ccasion14:

Amen, brotha.  :guitaristgif:

 

[Superlizard]

Why set the modeler to sound like a 3rd amp instead of one of the other two you have tracks of?

Because unfortunately, Guitar Rig 3 does not have a blackface Fender Deluxe, nor a Marshall JTM45 model.

But I have ideas for more...

GR 3 is a computer program, which is fine. But when I talk about modeler, I'm thinking along the lines of a PODXTLive ot ToneLab LE unit that can and will get plugged into some type of power amp and cabs.

This coming from a guy who accuses me of not being able to tell a plexi from a modeler... never answered to my
guess on his own little test... and who f*cked up his own guess at the big Mayfly Tonelab tone test!  LOL

Dude, I don't think you'd know a modeler if it hit you straight between the eyes...   :toothy10:

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Why set the modeler to sound like a 3rd amp instead of one of the other two you have tracks of?

Because unfortunately, Guitar Rig 3 does not have a blackface Fender Deluxe, nor a Marshall JTM45 model.

But I have ideas for more...

GR 3 is a computer program, which is fine. But when I talk about modeler, I'm thinking along the lines of a PODXTLive ot ToneLab LE unit that can and will get plugged into some type of power amp and cabs.

This coming from a guy who accuses me of not being able to tell a plexi from a modeler... never answered to my
guess on his own little test... and who f*cked up his own guess at the big Mayfly Tonelab tone test!  LOL

Dude, I don't think you'd know a modeler if it hit you straight between the eyes...   :toothy10:

LOL, to answer your guess on my little test, it was all PODXTLive, and only PODXTLive, including the drums which were part of the PODXTLive Riffworks software package. It was a joke setup. Never would have thought any of that or this discussion would ruffle so many feathers :icon_jokercolor:

Same thing with this track http://soundclick.com/share?songid=5266022 All PODXTLive (clean & distorted) straight to my PC and mixed down with the same LINE6 Riffworks software including the drums. Clean is a LINE6 version of the AC30 or Roland Jazz (can't remember which one) with chorus, distorted sounds are the LINE6 models of the Triple Recto and Rivera Los-Lobottom sub mixed together in the same preset, called the Big Bottom for those who have the POD units.

As far as Mayfly's test,  50/50 guess. To me, there was too big of a difference in the tone and gain used, skewed the test in my opinion. But it's not an excuse and I'm not using it as one.  You got lucky, I didn't.  Sue me. :icon_thumright:

I own plenty of t00b goodness, and I own the PODXTLive. I have played shows with both. One thing I can say for sure is that the POD can get to 95% or better of sounding like the amps I own that it replicates. And depending on what tone I'm looking for, it can go further than their eq stacks will allow.

From what I've heard of the AxeFX units, they out do the POD for getting even closer to matching the tones and feel.

In all seriousness, if you want to compare apples to apples, you're going to have to go amp against the same amp in the modeler, no boost, no anything other than straight amp vs. straight modeler. Overdrive/distortion pedals will alter the tone and feel of the amp and the modeler.

 

[Superlizard]

As far as Mayfly's test,  50/50 guess. To me, there was too big of a difference in the tone and gain used, skewed the test in my opinion. But it's not an excuse and I'm not using it as one.  You got lucky, I didn't.  Sue me. :icon_thumright:

Au contraire, I didn't get lucky - I know the unique sound (grind) of an AC30.  I stated as much and posted a very confident vote on my pick.

And if there was too big a difference in the tone and gain used in his test, then why didn't you pick the right one?

I own plenty of t00b goodness, and I own the PODXTLive. I have played shows with both. One thing I can say for sure is that the POD can get to 95% or better of sounding like the amps I own that it replicates.

95% or better?  Yeah?  Your POD didn't fool me.  :icon_biggrin:

However, I have no doubt the POD (or most other modelers) can replicate quite well the super-saturated over-compressed tone of a Bogner, etc... .

One thing I am verifying in all these tone tests is that modelers do 2 things well:

1) Super-saturated over-compressed / nu-metal-ish tone
2) Clean
2a) Clean with a light bit of clipping

But then again, I don't find it surprising.  In the case of (1), put enough distortion/gain in the tone, which squashes (compresses)
the signal, and pretty much any amp will sound like another.  And a clean tone (2), (2a) isn't very difficult to achieve for any amp.

It's all the in-between shades of dirt that modelers have a problem with.

In all seriousness, if you want to compare apples to apples, you're going to have to go amp against the same amp in the modeler, no boost, no anything other than straight amp vs. straight modeler. Overdrive/distortion pedals will alter the tone and feel of the amp and the modeler.

You're missing the whole point of this particular test - it's *not* apples to apples (did you even read the text?).

This is simply a "pick the modeler" test and an example of the differences between t00b amps and modelers.

And I will do a no-boost, straight amp comparison.  This is just the first test I'm doing - there will be more... oh yes.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

As far as Mayfly's test,  50/50 guess. To me, there was too big of a difference in the tone and gain used, skewed the test in my opinion. But it's not an excuse and I'm not using it as one.  You got lucky, I didn't.  Sue me. :icon_thumright:

Au contraire, I didn't get lucky - I know the unique sound (grind) of an AC30.  I stated as much and posted a very confident vote on my pick.

And if there was too big a difference in the tone and gain used in his test, then why didn't you pick the right one?

I own plenty of t00b goodness, and I own the PODXTLive. I have played shows with both. One thing I can say for sure is that the POD can get to 95% or better of sounding like the amps I own that it replicates.

95% or better?  Yeah?  Your POD didn't fool me.  :icon_biggrin:

However, I have no doubt the POD (or most other modelers) can replicate quite well the super-saturated over-compressed tone of a Bogner, etc... .

One thing I am verifying in all these tone tests is that modelers do 2 things well:

1) Super-saturated over-compressed / nu-metal-ish tone
2) Clean
3) Clean with a light bit of clipping

But then again, I don't find it surprising.  In the case of (1), put enough distortion/gain in the tone, which squashes (compresses)
the signal, and pretty much any amp will sound like another.  And a clean tone (2), (3) isn't very difficult to achieve for any amp.

It's all the in-between shades of dirt that modelers have a problem with.

In all seriousness, if you want to compare apples to apples, you're going to have to go amp against the same amp in the modeler, no boost, no anything other than straight amp vs. straight modeler. Overdrive/distortion pedals will alter the tone and feel of the amp and the modeler.

You're missing the whole point of this particular test - it's *not* apples to apples (did you even read the text?).

This is simply a "pick the modeler" test and an example of the differences between t00b amps and modelers.

And I will do a no-boost, straight amp comparison.  This is just the first test I'm doing - there will be more... oh yes.

Thanks for all the info, don't know how I survived all this time without you.  :toothy12:

Keep posting the test, lets see what happens. BTW, don't give away the answer in the titles from now on.  :icon_jokercolor:

It all good.  ccasion14:

 

[tfarny]

SL, this is great, but 1) didn't you yourself flunk the excellent Orange AD30 test, which involved exactly the same crunch stuff you say modellers can't do? 2) these clips are too big to be convenient. Just give us a quick and dirty version. I don't want to spend half an hour listening to you play Thin Lizzy licks, no offense.

BTW, if you tell us the names of the two real amps, that's too big a hint, and you're not trying to make them sound the same, so what's the point? You're giving away the game too easily, which then proves nothing. Hopefully next time you'll attempt an A/B comparo, trying to get them to sound just alike and then letting people see if they do.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

SL, this is great, but 1) didn't you yourself flunk the excellent Orange AD30 test, which involved exactly the same crunch stuff you say modellers can't do? 2) these clips are too big to be convenient. Just give us a quick and dirty version. I don't want to spend half an hour listening to you play Thin Lizzy licks, no offense.

BTW, if you tell us the names of the two real amps, that's too big a hint, and you're not trying to make them sound the same, so what's the point? You're giving away the game too easily, which then proves nothing. Hopefully next time you'll attempt an A/B comparo, trying to get them to sound just alike and then letting people see if they do.

What?!?!?!? I must have missed that one. The t00b sn00b got it wrong, can't be with an ear like his!!  :toothy10:

Apples to Apples please.  :icon_thumright:

 

[Superlizard]

SL, this is great, but 1) didn't you yourself flunk the excellent Orange AD30 test, which involved exactly the same crunch stuff you say modellers can't do? 2) these clips are too big to be convenient. Just give us a quick and dirty version. I don't want to spend half an hour listening to you play Thin Lizzy licks, no offense.

The Orange test was very close... but like I've mentioned in a post here, modelers can do clean with a light bit of clipping no prob.  I did
mention in that test that I'd like to hear both again... but goosed.

The "elusive" range I speak of is above *clean with clipping* and below *super compressed mondo metal* tone.  That's what my ears are telling me.

Yeah, I'll shorten the clips for other tests; this was a detailed "amp/modeler performance" test.  I had to include clean, jazzy, rock-out, solo, single note, etc tones.
It was a lot of work; had to play the same 5 bits over 3 times... that's 15 clips total.  Then I had to trim and paste 'em all together, etc.

BTW, if you tell us the names of the two real amps, that's too big a hint, and you're not trying to make them sound the same, so what's the point? You're giving away the game too easily, which then proves nothing. Hopefully next time you'll attempt an A/B comparo, trying to get them to sound just alike and then letting people see if they do.

As far as revealing the names of the real amps, I doubt anymore here can say *with confidence* which clip is the Fender, and which is the Marshall - maybe only a few.
Care to guess which is which?   :icon_biggrin:

 

[Superlizard]

Thanks for all the info, don't know how I survived all this time without you.  :toothy12:

Keep posting the test, lets see what happens. BTW, don't give away the answer in the titles from now on.  :icon_jokercolor:

It all good.  ccasion14:

So which clip did you pick as the modeler?

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Thanks for all the info, don't know how I survived all this time without you.  :toothy12:

Keep posting the test, lets see what happens. BTW, don't give away the answer in the titles from now on.  :icon_jokercolor:

It all good.  ccasion14:

So which clip did you pick as the modeler?

Once I saw the amps in the track titles I stopped listening.  :icon_thumright:

 

[Superlizard]

So which clip did you pick as the modeler?

Once I saw the amps in the track titles I stopped listening.  :icon_thumright:

Ah, but that's been fixed now... for some time.

I mean, I'd think considering you're so familiar with modelers, you'd be able to pick it out easily.

C'mon, don't be shy... tell us which clip *your* ears hear as the modeler.  :icon_thumright:

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Here's the deal with your test. Adding a solid state overdrive/distortion pedal puts the hard sterile clipping fizz/buzz into the signal that tubes don't. So by adding it in, you make the tube amps have the same quality of a cheap modeler. You've got to let the tube amps speak for themselves.

But to amuse you, I did go back and listen. You've got three totally different sounds going on which makes it very hard to compare (apples to oranges). Example, the JTM45 track seems too bright and chimmy early on for a vintage Bassman based design. That's where trying to make the three sound the same is better.

But I'll take door number two, seems more compressed and polished than the other two. Less raw sounding. To me, the differences became a little clearer at the end of the tracks, after 4:00.

Hey if I'm right, then that means your modeler doesn't pull it off well.

If I'm wrong, then I'm right that it is hard to tell a good modeler from a real tube amp.  ccasion14:

Hey, who put the guy who hates modelers in charge of recording comparisons anyway?  :icon_jokercolor:  :laughing7: