Burnishing Raw Necks

[dmraco]

I will be burnishing the back of this GA/Bocote beauty.

 

[Cagey]

Why not do the fretboard as well? There's no nut or any frets on it. You'll be happier if you do. Bocote is very hard. It'll burnish up like glass.

 

[dmraco]

Why not do the fretboard as well? There's no nut or any frets on it. You'll be happier if you do. Bocote is very hard. It'll burnish up like glass.

Alas....Warmoth is going to install some SS beauties for me.  Fret work is a bit beyond my ability at this time.

 

[Cagey]

Fret work is a bit beyond my ability at this time.

Nonsense. I've seen what you can do, so I know fretwork is just a few tools away. Regardless of what some may tell you, it's not particularly tricky. It's just time-consuming and tedious, which is why it costs as much as it does. Jump in! The water's fine!  :icon_biggrin:

 

[JD0x0]

Thank you for the response Cagey! The neck in question has not even been played yet and has a sticky feel to it. Much more sticky than my Pau Ferro, which I believe was only taken to 800 grit, and the rest has been polished by my hands, playing over time. I'm just a bit worried this neck is going to keep getting sticky. It's straight from the factory, then burnished with 600>1000>1200>1500>2000>2500
I'm wondering how normal this is. The neck is so smooth it's essentially behaving like a typical gloss finished neck. Should I consider taking it down to a more satin like texture or just play it in, keep it clean, and see if it improves? Would the naptha help on a 'clean' neck by removing some oils from the outer surface of the wood?

Thanks again!

 

[Cagey]

Hmm... I not sure what to tell you. I've never heard of a burnished raw neck feeling 'sticky'. I have a bloodwood neck here that has been treated that way and I have to be careful picking it up lest it slip out of my hands, fall down, go boom and piss me off. I mean, that thing is slick. It's one of my favorite necks.

Naphtha isn't expensive, so a good cleaning with that is certainly worth a shot. You need to have that stuff around the house anyway. It's like the duct tape of the solvent world - it's good for a lotta stuff.

 

[JD0x0]

hah it's probably just my hands or something I wont worry about it unless it becomes an issue. Thanks again  :hello2:


Edit: I hit it with a light treatment of mineral oil. Wiped off the excess really well, and that seemed to do the trick. No more stickiness or squeaking when I run my hand down the neck  :laughing7:

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I've had a lot of guitars come across my bench from younglings who eat nothing but greasy Taco Bell, and sweat the same to the point that their hardware looked as though it had been left outside in the salt flats of Utah for a decade or so.  Especially the cheap, zinc hardware with cheap plating.

 

[rgraf]

Lotsa grins, just didn't notate them.

Incidentally, the thing doesn't shine like that looking at it straight on the way a gloss-finished neck would. It just looks like raw wood, albeit very smooth.

Burnishing is a confusing term, here. It is used in woodworking for conditioning scrapers. polishing, as you used in the title is more accurate.

As for polishing, have you ever tried micro mesh? It is a cushioned abrasive that is used to remove scratches from airplane windshields among other things. Much better than using 2000 grit paper as it gets much finer. I've got some rosewood necks (Brazilian and Indian) that feel smooth as an ipad screen, and they look like stone. It really enhances the transparency of the grain. Works well on any wood that takes a decent polish, even swamp ash. Koa looks unreal and even the plainest of mahogany looks incredible. Marblewood, mpingo, bocote, ziricote and cocobolo I've polished all look as if they have a finish applied. And micro mesh lasts a lot longer and doesn't clog like the ultra fine sandpapers. It is cloth backed, so it can be easily washed if needed, which is rare. You can buy rolls on eBay occasionally, or kits. Goes from 1000 to 12000, which is probably the equivalent of about 600 to 6000, IME. Also, 3M makes some polishing 'cloths' that seem to go even a little farther.

 

[rgraf]

Lotsa grins, just didn't notate them.

Incidentally, the thing doesn't shine like that looking at it straight on the way a gloss-finished neck would. It just looks like raw wood, albeit very smooth.

Polish it out with micro mesh and it will have that gloss, but a different feel. Woods like marblewood and koa get a seriously killer look when you viewfrom just the right angle. It's like you go 'under water'. Much more depth. Puts a bar top finish to shame. It looks like you are submerged in a body of water and you see algae or seaweed. As you change the angle and 'resurface, you notice that the seaweed is the pores.

 

[rgraf]

Agreed, steel wool is a mess!

Steel wool is usually treated with a silicone to prevent rusting, which makes it not too good before a surface finish. It also doesn't last long and scratches softer woods like swamp ash and alder.

 

[rgraf]

It seems to me Ive read that some exotic sawdust can be somewhat harmful on skin contact or breathed in. Padouk in particular. Any thoughts on which woods where maybe this isn't such a great idea?

That's subjective. I've been covered in the sawdust of over fifty species of wood, and never once had any issues, other than a couple of them being mildly irritating to breathe. (I hate Canary and Kingwood.) Others will break into rashes and severe respiratory issues after exposure to just about any wood. If you're prone to allergies, you might consider a mask and perhaps some gloves or something, if they don't affect your ability to sand. Note, however, that you really won't be exposed to a whole lot of dust by fine sanding a neck. I would be more concerned with getting the wood oils on your hands than breathing it. Make sure you wash your hands well after you do it. Even if you think your hands are clean, whatever color of wood you work with is what you'll see in the sink when you wash up.

It's like bee stings. Some people are sensitive, some are not. And a single sting can be a trigger, even if you have never had a reaction to being stung many times previously. Camphorwood is supposedly one of the worst, and cocobolo is, as well. Some are actually poisonous.

 

[rgraf]

Do yourself a favor and buy a can of naphtha or denatured alcohol. Use that to clean the neck every once in a while. It'll cut through the various residue you're leaving on the neck by playing it. it also helps to wash your hands before you play. It'll get rid of any dirt, skin oil, dead skin cells or other residue rather than depositing it on your neck.

While everybody leaves something on the neck, some people's hands sweat more than others. That builds up and makes the neck sticky, faster with some than others. A lot of players keep a cloth of some sort in their case or nearby to wipe the neck and strings down after a playing session. Even with that, any neck will need more aggressive cleaning once in a while. It's unavoidable if you want a smooth player.

Interesting story - a friend of mine used to have that problem until he had a heart attack. He had a tendency to sweat more than many, too. But, they found out his cholesterol levels were super-high and between that and his tendency to retain water (he loved his salty snacks) they put him on a diuretic and some statins, and now he's got the opposite problem - too dry. But, his necks stay cleaner longer!  Always a sllver lining, right? :icon_biggrin:

Stay way from statins, IMO. Niacin is the active ingrdeient in lipitor, and the rest is patentable, useless junk. Not time release, flush free or niacinamide, but niacin (B3, but it's actually an amino acid precursor).

As for maintenance, I just use the 12000 micro mesh.

 

[Glimmer]

My GA / Macassar Ebony neck arrived on Monday (out of the box pics here). Burnished it yesterday following the recommendations herein, to wit: 400 > 600 > 1200 grit 3m polishing papers followed by 2000 grit waterproof paper from Eagle Abrasives, all dry, in increasing time increments (roughly 15 > 20 > 25 > 30 mins), wiping the neck down with a damp paper towel between grits and/or when the paper loaded up. Anybody who's made it through the 19 pages of this thread won't be surprised by my results: super smooth, glassy-feeling, very fine-to-the-touch surface. Definitely time well spent, and I look forward to seeing how it plays.

One thing I'll note: like elgravos, I found that the 2000 grit took off the sheen achieved with the 1200 grit, so like him and a few others I think I'll hit it with some 4000 grit polishing paper and see if I can't get it back. One question, however: elgravos mentions that after the 2000, he went back to the 1200, *then* went on to 4000. Is that step necessary, or might I get the same results going straight on to the 4000 grit?

 

[Cagey]

The finer the abrasive, the finer the scratches. The purpose of going through progressively finer grits is to gradually get down to scratches that are too fine to see/feel. If you go backwards, you'll introduce larger scratches which will in turn be more difficult to get rid of by going to a finer grit than where you left off.

So, to answer your question, I'd skip the return to 1200 and go to the 4000 from where you're at. You may be getting to a point of diminishing returns, though. The wood, depending on the species, has an innate natural surface coarseness. I don't know how you'd quantify that, but once you're there increasingly finer abrasives aren't going to improve things. For the necks I've done, 2000 grit seems like a good place to stop even on the very densest woods.

 

[Glimmer]

The finer the abrasive, the finer the scratches. The purpose of going through progressively finer grits is to gradually get down to scratches that are too fine to see/feel. If you go backwards, you'll introduce larger scratches which will in turn be more difficult to get rid of by going to a finer grit than where you left off.

That's how it seemed to me, but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something (wouldn't be the first time :tard: ).

So, to answer your question, I'd skip the return to 1200 and go to the 4000 from where you're at. You may be getting to a point of diminishing returns, though. The wood, depending on the species, has an innate natural surface coarseness. I don't know how you'd quantify that, but once you're there increasingly finer abrasives aren't going to improve things. For the necks I've done, 2000 grit seems like a good place to stop even on the very densest woods.

I'm going to give the 4000 grit a try and will report back.

 

[dmraco]

two shots of my GA neck.  I went up to 4500 grit on this.  I left the bocote fret board untouched but polished up the SS fret ends real nice.




you can see the difference where I stopped on this with the back of the headstock.

 

[Cagey]

Beautiful! What a wonderful process, eh? I've done a lotta woodworking in my life and never knew this sort of thing was possible prior to a couple years ago.

 

[Glimmer]

Looks beautiful, DMRACO! Thanks for sharing these pics. I'll add a few of my own once I've finished (no pun intended :icon_tongue: ).

 

[Glimmer]

Here are a few pics after 30 mins of 4000 grit:

This is under electric light, so the shine may be artificially bright; I'll see tomorrow morning in the "true light." I will say that the finer grit did bring back and enhance the sheen that I mentioned above. It also seemed to have highlighted the 3-dimensionality of the wood here and there, tho' I don't know if it's visible in the pics above. Whatever the case may be, my thanks to Cagey, Tonar, and everyone else who contributed to this thread. Never would have known to do it had I not read it here.