Binding an L5S

[Cagey]

Hmm... I don't know... looks like a cast iron bitch. Maybe I should re-think my string anchoring scheme...

 

[bagman67]

Hmm... I don't know... looks like a cast iron bitch. Maybe I should re-think my string anchoring scheme...

This?

http://www.youtube.com/embed/hnsQRpgYmaE

 

[Cagey]

There we go! Nails! Why didn't I think of that? I've nailed a few things...

Speaking of my first wife...

I saw her at my son's wedding last year, and Yikes! I can pretty much guarantee she hasn't been nailed in a long time. She's gotta weight 350lbs if she's an ounce.

How do people let themselves get that way? But, I digress.

That guy's a budding young James Marshall Hendrix. Make those strings your bitch!

 

[Pelagaard]

Is she bound?  Any decision on bridge type?

 

[Cagey]

No, not bound yet. Been working on other people's stuff, so it's still waiting patiently. Summer's coming, though. Paint time! Gotta get off TDC and make hay while the sun shines.

I did decide on and commit to a bridge/tailpiece, though. I followed your suggestion and bought a Bigsby B5, which I'm pairing up with a Wilkinson Roller bridge...

I may also move off my original finish decision and go with Bagman's suggestion there, which would be to do a green thing. I really want one of Warmoth's Ipe fretboards, but they have a decided olive cast to them, which when combined with a red guitar would make the whole thing look a bit too much like a Christmas decoration.

 

[Pelagaard]

Very cool looking.  I'm also very interested in the Ipe boards, and will most likely go with one when I pull the trigger on my fretless build.  As to the body color, I think it'll really depend on the color of the particular fb you pick.  Warmoth's selection does seem to run very green, but I vaguely remember seeing one that was very brown, and another that looked more yellow.

 

[Cagey]

When I did some research on Ipe recently, I couldn't find anything that even remotely resembled the stuff Warmoth's got. It was all various shades of brown, and none of it had the same grain pattern. I understand there are numerous varieties of it, but I didn't see a whole lot of variation in them. Maybe the leaves or flowers or size change when the thing is a living, growing plant, but the wood all seems pretty similar.

Of course, far and away the largest use of the stuff is for flooring and outdoor furniture and decks, so the majority of the pictures of the stuff I saw were probably chosen to show off qualities that make it suitable for that rather than decorative uses.

 

[bagman67]

Cagey, I think green with that gold hardware would look dead sexy.  If you want, I can send you my remaining Mixol grass-green pigment. If you decide not to use it, nothing lost but the stamp.  I have about half the 20-ml vial.  After more than a year during which the guitar has almost never been put away, the green remains vivid. 




The poor job I did finishing it is another story entirely - it's thrashed.  Plus my toddler literally took after it with a toy hammer the other day.  I'm willing to rent the little guy out for reasonable rates to accelerate anyone's relic project.

 

[dmraco]

How did I miss this thread?  Nice work.

 

[Cagey]

Cagey, I think green with that gold hardware would look dead sexy.  If you want, I can send you my remaining Mixol grass-green pigment. If you decide not to use it, nothing lost but the stamp.  I have about half the 20-ml vial.  After more than a year during which the guitar has almost never been put away, the green remains vivid. 

After having looked up some examples of guitars that have been finished in a similar manner, I have to agree. For instance, check out this Gretsch Duo Jet...

Gretsch calls that "Cadillac Green", which is cool because the very first car I ever drove was a '68 Cadillac Coupe DeVille in that color. I think I was about 14 at the time. Lady I cut grass for wanted me to run up to the hardware and get some fertilizer, so she handed me $20 and the keys to this land yacht. I didn't even bat an eye. She was an immigrant and not quite up on all 86,291,554 of our laws yet. I was not about to start tutoring her.

Anyway, I appreciate the offer of the Mixol, but that's not pigment, is it? Seems like the guitar you did was stained, as it was transparent. For an opaque finish as above, pigment is what's needed. I'm going to have some holes filled on this body, at the very least the original stop tailpiece stud mounting holes, so I can't have a transparent color top. Then, I'm going to do the back and sides in clear to let the Mahogany show, as it's a good piece.

The poor job I did finishing it is another story entirely - it's thrashed.  Plus my toddler literally took after it with a toy hammer the other day.  I'm willing to rent the little guy out for reasonable rates to accelerate anyone's relic project.

What is it about guitars that makes them damage magnets?

 

[bagman67]

Actually, the Mixol is pigment.  I will take a look, maybe I'm misremembering how much I used.  I squirted some into a jar of lacquer thinner and retardant and wiped it on. You'd likely get a different result if you tinted actual lacquer with it to a suitable strength.  In any case, the offer stands for me to mail you the Mixol - you could experiment with it and see whether you get anything you like out of it.

 

[tylereot]

No, not bound yet. Been working on other people's stuff, so it's still waiting patiently. Summer's coming, though. Paint time! Gotta get off TDC and make hay while the sun shines.

I did decide on and commit to a bridge/tailpiece, though. I followed your suggestion and bought a Bigsby B5, which I'm pairing up with a Wilkinson Roller bridge...

I may also move off my original finish decision and go with Bagman's suggestion there, which would be to do a green thing. I really want one of Warmoth's Ipe fretboards, but they have a decided olive cast to them, which when combined with a red guitar would make the whole thing look a bit too much like a Christmas decoration.

Yes.  This is going to be a Very Nice Ax.  I'm finding the wilkie roller bridge to be a little tight on the string spacing, but I do have it on a Bass VI after all.  And green would rock.  Maybe do the caddy green base with a green or gold ghost pearl...  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Pelagaard]

British Racing Green with just a touch of a really small gold flake would be awesome.

Something like this:

 

[DangerousR6]

Cagey, I think green with that gold hardware would look dead sexy.  If you want, I can send you my remaining Mixol grass-green pigment. If you decide not to use it, nothing lost but the stamp.  I have about half the 20-ml vial.  After more than a year during which the guitar has almost never been put away, the green remains vivid. 

After having looked up some examples of guitars that have been finished in a similar manner, I have to agree. For instance, check out this Gretsch Duo Jet...

Gretsch calls that "Cadillac Green", which is cool because the very first car I ever drove was a '68 Cadillac Coupe DeVille in that color. I think I was about 14 at the time. Lady I cut grass for wanted me to run up to the hardware and get some fertilizer, so she handed me $20 and the keys to this land yacht. I didn't even bat an eye. She was an immigrant and not quite up on all 86,291,554 of our laws yet. I was not about to start tutoring her.

Anyway, I appreciate the offer of the Mixol, but that's not pigment, is it? Seems like the guitar you did was stained, as it was transparent. For an opaque finish as above, pigment is what's needed. I'm going to have some holes filled on this body, at the very least the original stop tailpiece stud mounting holes, so I can't have a transparent color top. Then, I'm going to do the back and sides in clear to let the Mahogany show, as it's a good piece.

The poor job I did finishing it is another story entirely - it's thrashed.  Plus my toddler literally took after it with a toy hammer the other day.  I'm willing to rent the little guy out for reasonable rates to accelerate anyone's relic project.

What is it about guitars that makes them damage magnets?

Other than Rev Willy's Billy Bo, the Duo is one of my fav Gretsch's. Got a chance several years ago to play a late 50's like this one, only in sppedboat silver flake. Fabulous guitar...

 

[Cagey]

That is a sharp guitar.

I'm debating cutting a hole in the back of this L5S so I can have the pickup switch in the upper forward bout the way that one does. I could be wrong, but it seems like there just isn't going to be room on the lower rear bout for one. That Bigsby is a real estate hog, with the wang bar portion ending up in the way of things all the time. Have to buy some cutting tools I don't currently have, but tools are always a good investment.

Speaking of covering holes, has anybody seen cream colored covers anywhere? Everybody and their brother makes black ones, but I've searched a number of times now and short of custom made stuff, they don't seem to be available. Between the L5S and the blue Tele, I need 2 round ones if I cut that switch hole in the L5S, and 2 kidney-shaped ones. I don't feel like making them myself, as the mess is horrendous. I'd rather somebody who's set up for that kind of work do it.

 

[TBurst Std]

That is a sharp guitar.

I'm debating cutting a hole in the back of this L5S so I can have the pickup switch in the upper forward bout the way that one does. I could be wrong, but it seems like there just isn't going to be room on the lower rear bout for one. That Bigsby is a real estate hog, with the wang bar portion ending up in the way of things all the time. Have to buy some cutting tools I don't currently have, but tools are always a good investment.

Speaking of covering holes, has anybody seen cream colored covers anywhere? Everybody and their brother makes black ones, but I've searched a number of times now and short of custom made stuff, they don't seem to be available. Between the L5S and the blue Tele, I need 2 round ones if I cut that switch hole in the L5S, and 2 kidney-shaped ones. I don't feel like making them myself, as the mess is horrendous. I'd rather somebody who's set up for that kind of work do it.

I haven;t seen them, but what about a custom order from pickguardian?

 

[Cagey]

I'm aware of them and am sure they could satisfy, I was just hoping somebody made those parts in a non-custom inexpensive sort of way.

 

[BlueTalon]

I have a question about the binding.  Early in the thread, you explained about how you put the binding together, using the tool to put the layers together to get a straight section of binding.  You then observed how brittle your end result was. 


From reading, I gathered there were two ways to accomplish what you wanted -- either put one layer of binding on the guitar at a time, and repeat the process a bunch of times; or layer all the binding together and then use a heat gun to form the entire thick binding to the guitar.


Here is my question -- is it possible to put all the layers of binding together in a curve, rather than a straight line?  Will that tool work for curves?  or is there a different but similar tool meant for curves?  It seems to me that you could form the binding in a curve when you are initially putting it all together.  You could measure the length of the curves from the guitar with a string or something, so you could reverse the curve at the right place. 


It wouldn't matter if the curve is the same contour as the guitar, since you have to form it anyway.  But it would save a helluva lot of hassle if you could start fitting it to the guitar from a curve that's a little bit closer than from a straight line.

 

[DangerousR6]

To me it seems easier to put one layer at a time on the guitar and then tape it all up after all the layers are in place... :dontknow:

 

[Cagey]

Here is my question -- is it possible to put all the layers of binding together in a curve, rather than a straight line?  Will that tool work for curves?  or is there a different but similar tool meant for curves?  It seems to me that you could form the binding in a curve when you are initially putting it all together.  You could measure the length of the curves from the guitar with a string or something, so you could reverse the curve at the right place. 

The tool is only good for straight runs. You also have a time problem. The layers are laminated using acetone, which boils off pretty fast. That speed increases with temperature, and even single layers of binding material need to be heated to get pliable enough to get around curves. You'd need a form so you could heat the material, form it, then quickly weld it. Since you'd want to form it in the shape of the guitar body, the body makes a convenient form. May as well just install it one layer at a time if you're going to do that.

I did see a video where the guy made a form in the shape of the body. Basically, it was a square piece of wood larger than the body with a channel cut into it that was an outline of the body. He'd heat up the binding, fitting it into the channel as it became pliable. When done, it was all already cool and removing it from the form left a piece of binding in the shape of the guitar. Pretty neat trick, but it was a single layer binding strip. I suspect in the production shops they do a similar thing, but use plastic that's already laminated in sheets, like pickguard material. They'd simply cut off strips, fit them to a mold, then attach the resulting formed binding to bodies.

Has to be something like that, because even as inexpensive as labor is in the far east it would cost a lot to get bound bodies. But, they practically give them away. Look at this ES knockoff...

5 layer binding front and back, as well as a bound neck and headstock. Alnico 'buckers, abalone inlays, Grover tuners, TOM bridge... $239 in the box, out the door, brand spankin' new. Can't even buy a paint job for that kind of money here.