SS6100/Compound/59 Roundback vs 6100/Compound/Fatback

[slowhandy]

I'm trying to decide between a SS6100/Compound/59 Roundback and a 6100/Compound/Fatback.  What I would like to know is what goes better with a compound radius neck --  nickel or stainless jumbo frets, or a thinner or thick neck?  I want it to be able to bend but not too much(in the words of my former guitar teacher I don't want the strings "to go all over").  I would still like to be able to play chords with it and I generally never usually  make more than 1 1/2 step bends(occaisionally 2).

Please advise. :icon_scratch:

 

[Patrick from Davis]

The back of the neck profile won't make the neck inherently more or less prone for the strings to be bendy.  It is more of what is comfortable for you to play.  I have both, and the '59 is a very easy neck on my hands to play.  However, I am starting to go more for the fatback as I get older.  I used to be a standard thin guy, but time, and medical issues have made my hands age in a manner that favors the fat back.  That doesn't mean that I bend any differently on either of the necks, or it is easier on either of the necks.  My hands are just doing what they are doing, and I am finding the most comfortable situation for them to do that.
Patrick

 

[DustyCat]

I have noticed that my hands have gotten bigger even after the rest of my body stopped growing (they say early twenties is when the average man stops growing) and have been eyeballing necks with fatter back contours.

I have no advice for you other than to offer my own plans: The next time I order another custom neck, I am going to order the biggest, fattest boatneck C contour Warmoth offers (6100's with full scallop of course) and melt away the wood on the back of the neck with some 180 grit sandpaper to match the exact contour of my fretting hand and then move on up the scale with finer and finer grit rating polishing papers to get it liquid glass smooth (see cagey's thread polishing a raw neck).

 

[Cagey]

Always order stainless frets. That's a no-brainer.

Neck profile is personal. If you can't play an example in real life, all you can do is take a shot and hope it works out. Usually it does. You can get used to anything - it's just a matter of practice.

 

[Orpheo]

I love SS frets and I love big necks. so, it's a no brainer. SS frets plus a fatback. done.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

I'd also add that while any people receive their new neck and it plays great straight away, you're missing out if you don't at least polish the frets. They might not need levelling or crowning, and if you're happy with the ends just bevel rather than dressed then great. But you should at least polish the frets up. Yes, they seem dead smooth when you get them. Dragging your nail across a brand new SS fret does feel silky smooth. But polish one up and then compare them and you'll be amazed. Bending feels incredible when they're polished.

Anything that goes to a nice high grit will do, like the 3M polishing papers. I use the micro-mesh buffing pads from StewMac.

Also they look awesome polished up.

 

[slowhandy]

I have found that these things influence bendability: i) radius - the flatter the easier, ii) jumbos - can get under them  iii) stainless - smoother bends and iv) neck contour - fatter gives more leverage.  Each on its own works but it's the right combination that counts.  I think that combining all these factors together in the same neck can result in overkill.

I love fatbacks and stainless but I'm not sure how well they'd go together with a compound radius.  Right now I've got SS6100s on a fatback with a 14" radius and it's very bendy -- almost too bendy.  Polishing nickels sounds like an idea though.  Usually my luthier just levels and crowns the frets with hardly any polishing.

Thanks for the feedback. 

 

[dudesweet157]

-- almost too bendy.

I don't think I have ever heard a guitarist refer to a guitar as "too bendy" before.

 

[swarfrat]

I jumped from 10's to 13's on one of my guitars because I was trying to hammer doublestops above a barre, and with 13's things kinda stay THERE unless you REALLY want them to.

 

[slowhandy]

I agree string gauge and string action both affect bendability, but are whole other issues, and what I was referring to were mainly characteristics of necks.  A guitar can be "too bendy" depending on the application.  For instance it can be "too bendy" for rhythm guitar because you wind up damping the strings inadvertently.  It also depends on the style of music.  Metal or fusion calls for bigger bends than blues. arty07: :guitaristgif: :guitarplayer2:

 

[Cagey]

I agree string gauge and string action both affect bendability, but are whole other issues, and what I was referring to were mainly characteristics of necks.  A guitar can be "too bendy" depending on the application.  For instance it can be "too bendy" for rhythm guitar because you wind up damping the strings inadvertently.  It also depends on the style of music.  Metal or fusion calls for bigger bends than blues. arty07: :guitaristgif: :guitarplayer2:

I've never found string action to affect bendability. String gauge, scale length, fret material and fret height are the main things I've found to hinder or facilitate bending. Fretboard wood species/finish also affects it, although to a somewhat lesser degree.

As for inadvertently damping strings, that's a finger placement accuracy issue, not how slinky the strings are.

And music type? Really? Have you heard many blues players? Blues players bend strings as if they're unbreakable, and often. Not to mention tons of vibrato. They're some of the bendiest (is that a word?) players you'll ever hear.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

A really low action on small frets can affect bendability for me - means I can't get my fingers under. Not an issue with 6100s though.

 

[Cagey]

Small/low frets cripple me, too. It's yet another reason I generally don't care for 'vintage-correct' instruments.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Oh that reminds me, I tested out this "with 6100s you don't need scalloping" thing, and it's bogus. Sure, just fretting a note you don't feel any wood. However, as soon as you bend, your fingers are all over the wood. No question that scalloping would feel vastly different.

 

[Cagey]

It does feel different. I'm just skeptical of the need to go to that extreme. With the 6100s, you certainly get a very positive grip on the string. I'm not sure what there is to gain past that.

 

[stratamania]

On the 6100 frets and scallop discussion perhaps I can add something here. I play scalloped and unscalloped boards.

One of the guitars I have is an Yngwie signature strat and it has 6100s and is scalloped. With just the 6100s when bending my finger pads either side of the string would catch the wood if it was there.

However I also have a Hamer Chapparal custom that I have owned since the late eighties, natural relic through years of use. I am still contemplating having it refinished back to the pearl white it once was, but I digress. Recently I had this re fretted with 6105 stainless steel frets and it has a nice ebony board. I have found that ebony being hard along with the stainless frets that were also pleked to be comfortable for bending. I went for 6105s to keep the frets close to the original size.

My upcoming build is an ebony board with 6100 stainless steel and I am hoping I can get away without scalloping it. The point I am getting to being that with smooth stainless steel 6100s and smooth ebony even without a scallop the fingers will meet less resistance compared to other fingerboard material that isn't as smooth.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

I'm not sure there's any "need" for scalloping either, but that's beside the point. There's no question in my mind that a scalloped neck will have a different feel from a regular neck. And if it's different, it stands to reason that some people will prefer one over the other. So if someone loves the feel of scalloped necks, I think that for example telling them to get 6100s and that they won't need it scalloped, is probably not right.

 

[Cagey]

Ok, I'll give you that.

Also, as it turns out, getting a neck scalloped (at least from Warmoth) automatically gets you 6100s. Your only choice is whether you want nickel/silver, gold or stainless.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

That was me saying "if you have 6100's you don't need scalloping".

Of course, everything is subjective.

I have long fingers, but very narrow fingers, not a whole lot of meat surrounding the bone.  I also play with a light touch and a different posture than most metal players, aside from maybe Petrucci.  I also vibrato with a couple of different techniques, and this influences my fingers interaction with the fingerboard throught the fretwire.  Many times when I vibrato a single note, that one finger is the only thing touching the neck as sometimes my thumb comes off of the back of the neck for a free'er vibrato.  Other times, I pivot from my wrist off to the side. 

When I do, my finger is barely pressed down with enough pressure to fret the not, and I have hardly any "hangover" from my finger down toward the fingerboard.  I know that many people with much more meat on their fingers probably hang over a lot more than I do.

All that being said, I do like the benefits of larger frets and/or a scalloped fingerboard, but it does take some time to adapt your technique, especially with chords.

 

[stratamania]

Each to his own when it comes to scalloped necks.

The fret wire from Warmoth for scalloped now seems to be in addition to 6100, also GD6150 and SS6115. Only on Warmoth pro necks up to the 22nd fret.