Non recessed floyd route setup

[stratamania]

Since making this thread I've done some modifying and research on achieving this setup. Anyone saying decked floyds are a bad idea is simply uneducated on the matter. When floyds first came out this is essentially how all of them were setup and designed. Think most 80s guitarists (EVH especially).

That is a bit of a sweeping statement and not correct.

I don't like decked Floyds I prefer them to float and that is how most designs are. I actually was a guitarist prior to and through the 80s and to now. I have used Floyds since the 80s. I can categorically tell you first hand that Floyds in the 80s most certainly did float. I still have one of my 80s guitars with a Floyd and it floats and was set up like that by the manufacturer and it is a set neck.

Some 80s guitarists like EVH (who used also a D-Tuna in later years) used a dive only set up. But some does not equal most or all.

 

[bruzanhd]

Since making this thread I've done some modifying and research on achieving this setup. Anyone saying decked floyds are a bad idea is simply uneducated on the matter. When floyds first came out this is essentially how all of them were setup and designed. Think most 80s guitarists (EVH especially).

That is a bit of a sweeping statement and not correct.

I don't like decked Floyds I prefer them to float and that is how most designs are. I actually was a guitarist prior to and through the 80s and to now. I have used Floyds since the 80s. I can categorically tell you first hand that Floyds in the 80s most certainly did float. I still have one of my 80s guitars with a Floyd and it floats and was set up like that by the manufacturer and it is a set neck.

Some 80s guitarists like EVH (who used also a D-Tuna in later years) used a dive only set up. But some does not equal most or all.

Fair enough. But first  came out I’m meaning prototypes. Like the frt1-5 versions were mostly setup not to float. However I still think it’s odd say that decked is a “bad idea” it’s just a performance preference. It’s like saying low action is a bad idea. It’s neither good or bad. It’s just preference.

 

[stratamania]

I don't think anyone in the thread said that decking a Floyd is a bad idea just members provided information that the angled neck pockets and recessed routs Warmoth offer are intended for floating Floyds and other geometry via shims (which you thought were a bad idea) or a trem stop, non angled pocket is needed if you want dive only.

 

[TheOtherEric]

... However I still think it’s odd say that decked is a “bad idea” it’s just a performance preference. It’s like saying low action is a bad idea. It’s neither good or bad. It’s just preference.

Like I explained above, decking (tightening the springs until the trem sits against the body) a FR trem is objectively a BAD IDEA because it won't sit flat against the body and will probably damage the top too.  It's *possible* yours might sit flush and won't damage the body, but very unlikely.  But blocking a FR with a trem stopper of some type (as opposed to decking) to get dive-only is a perfectly legit setup choice.  Ideally with a spring-style trem stopper or Tremol-no type device.

 

[TheGreatRedDragon]

When I built my Charvel I ordered the body without an angled pocket so I could deck it. That wasn't a problem. The problem was, with the bridge as low as it could go the action was still way too high and I ended up having to shim it. With a .5 degree shim and the Floyd decked I've got the action where I want it.

For my next build with a Floyd I will be getting an angled pocket and really on a trem stopper. More flexibility. Relying on the height of the bridge and the height of the fingerboard to magically line up is impractical.

 

[rlefty]

I know it's not exactly what you want to hear, but in the past I have had good luck using this trem stop https://floydrose.com/collections/trem-stops/products/frtl?variant=29837632850. Works very well and you could actually install two of them if you were so inclined. I'd imagine it's more stable than a tremol-no long term if you don't plan on switching back and forth very quickly.

 

[bruzanhd]

... However I still think it’s odd say that decked is a “bad idea” it’s just a performance preference. It’s like saying low action is a bad idea. It’s neither good or bad. It’s just preference.

Like I explained above, decking (tightening the springs until the trem sits against the body) a FR trem is objectively a BAD IDEA because it won't sit flat against the body and will probably damage the top too.  It's *possible* yours might sit flush and won't damage the body, but very unlikely.  But blocking a FR with a trem stopper of some type (as opposed to decking) to get dive-only is a perfectly legit setup choice.  Ideally with a spring-style trem stopper or Tremol-no type device.

The baseplate is flat? I don’t agree with your assessment. Mine rests perfectly fine after some modifications to the body. Plenty of 80s guitarists were running this setup.

 

[bruzanhd]

As an update:

I’ve updated my build thread to include how I have achieved this setup finally. It was playing very well for a few days with 4.5/64ths of action on the low E. Guitar is now at the luthiers place and I expect it to play even smoother after the fret level and professional setup. Floyd was flat as well. Some modification to the neck angle was performed with sand paper. In the future I would order the body without the neck angle and then shim to my own preference.

And as someone mentioned, expecting the neck angle to line up is definitely not realistic, however since these are custom instruments, we can make the neck angle lineup our selves with a little elbow grease.

 

[VanHeGen]

Hi!
I was really looking forward to ordering a Warmoth build (body and neck), and while waiting for a reply from Warmoth Sales (for almost 2 weeks, now) I have had time to read/search this wonderful forum. And right now I am maybe not scared s*itless, but very worried and I am strongly questioning if it is worth to order a ”custom made guitar” from Warmoth, if I will have to take it to luthier and actually make it customized?

I was hoping to get a guitar from Warmoth that would be equipped with a non-recessed Floyd and D-tuna, as the branded alternatives (like EVH) are not to my liking.

Now, if what you say ”order the body without the neck angle and then shim to my own preference” means that this only would require a shim (where/what should I buy?) in the neck, and not that somebody would need to use a saw and sandpaper on the (roasted and very hard woods), I might dare to move forward with Warmoth. Maybe. But I still can’t understand how it can be that difficult….
Thx!

 

[stratamania]

@VanHeGen If you want a D-Tuna the straightforward way to go about this is to get a non-recessed Floyd rout.

Then you need a Trem Stopper to ensure the Floyd is dive only to use with the D-Tuna.

For example

FU-Tone Tremolo Stoppers and Stabilizers for Tremolo

FU-Tone Floyd Rose Tremolo stoppers and stabilizers from FU-Tone to upgrade the tone and performance of your electric guitars. Maximum tuning stability.

www.fu-tone.com

EVH D-Tuna - FU-TONE.COM for floyd rose from eddie van halen

EVH D-Tuna from Eddie Van Halen for Drop D tuning on your Floyd Rose Tremolo while playing electric guitar. Alternate tuning for guitar.

www.fu-tone.com

There is no need to have a 720 mod and then have to fuss around with shims etc. That is overthinking things far more than needed. Would EVH have done that? I doubt it.


If you needed a neck-shim for some reason, which is not that likely, you can get some really well-made ones in various angles.

StewMac Neck Shims for Guitar - StewMac

To change the angle of a bolt-on neck, players and repair shops have used shims for years. We've seen everything from matchbook covers to guitar picks stuck in neck joints.

www.stewmac.com

 

[VanHeGen]

If you want a D-Tuna the straightforward way to go about this is to get a non-recessed Floyd rout.

Then you need a Trem Stopper to ensure the Floyd is dive only to use with the D-Tuna.

For example

FU-Tone Tremolo Stoppers and Stabilizers for Tremolo

FU-Tone Floyd Rose Tremolo stoppers and stabilizers from FU-Tone to upgrade the tone and performance of your electric guitars. Maximum tuning stability.

www.fu-tone.com

EVH D-Tuna - FU-TONE.COM for floyd rose from eddie van halen

EVH D-Tuna from Eddie Van Halen for Drop D tuning on your Floyd Rose Tremolo while playing electric guitar. Alternate tuning for guitar.

www.fu-tone.com

There is no need to have a 720 mod and then have to fuss around with shims etc. That is overthinking things far more than needed. Would EVH have done that? I doubt it.

If you needed a neck-shim for some reason, which is not that likely, you can get some really well-made ones in various angles.

StewMac Neck Shims for Guitar - StewMac

To change the angle of a bolt-on neck, players and repair shops have used shims for years. We've seen everything from matchbook covers to guitar picks stuck in neck joints.

www.stewmac.com

Thank you! Coming from a respected member like you, stratamania, this information-rich message lowers my blood pressure somewhat However, I still have a couple of questions.

Does this mean that I can’t set the bridge flush mounted on the body (as they are on my EVH Wolfgang, which has no trem stopper), which I have always assumed means ”dive only”? Or why is the trem stopper needed?

And to ensure that I know what to choose from the Warmoth Body configurator, would that be the ”Floyd Rose Style Tremolo” option, that says ”angled pocket recommended” (= default?). Or would I need to add some information for Warmoth regarding the body, separately?

Thank you - again - for your help!

 

[bruzanhd]

Thank you! Coming from a respected member like you, stratamania, this information-rich message lowers my blood pressure somewhat However, I still have a couple of questions.

Does this mean that I can’t set the bridge flush mounted on the body (as they are on my EVH Wolfgang, which has no trem stopper), which I have always assumed means ”dive only”? Or why is the trem stopper needed?

And to ensure that I know what to choose from the Warmoth Body configurator, would that be the ”Floyd Rose Style Tremolo” option, that says ”angled pocket recommended” (= default?). Or would I need to add some information for Warmoth regarding the body, separately?

Thank you - again - for your help!

You may get away with decking the bridge without a trem stopper, there’s nothing wrong with using a trem stopper I just wanted that 80s feel. For that reason I modified the neck pocket. It’s really not hard and if you didn’t feel capable of doing it, you can always shim as stratamania has mentioned. This build was done with the angled pocket but the build I did following this one used an off menu 720 mod in order to save me from sanding the neck pocket. Both of the build threads I made detail the process of setting up the Floyd in this (apparently idiosyncratic) manner. I’m happy to answer any question I may have glossed over in my threads also.

 

[stratamania]

@VanHeGen the other thing I forgot to mention is that if you contact Warmoth sales, I think it may be possible to order a non-recessed Floyd route without an angled pocket. That way if you want the trem to sit flush on the body that would probably be the better option.

With an angled pocket you may be able to deck it, but a trem stopper is an option if you don't like the resultant angle of the decked bridge.

So in summary I would opt for a tremstopper if the pocket is angled as an option or ask Warmoth for a non-recessed rout with no angled pocket.

I hope this clarifies things for you.

 

[VanHeGen]

Thank you again @stratamania and @bruzanhd ! I now understand better what the options are - and mean, and they are definitely being narrowed down!

Knowing what to look for I googled about EVH Wolfgangs and forums claim that the Floyds are all flat mounted on Wolfgangs, and the neck is angled. You can divebomb only. No trem-stopper.
However, on the arc/curved tops (like my Stealth Special) the Floyd is actually - pervertedly? - slightly inside the body! Apparently Eddie always flat-mounted his tremolos on guitars that had flat bodies, so on a curved top he wanted the Floyd to be at the exact same height - thus carving a bit under the Floyd.
And yes, it looks like that on mine, too.

So if I order a non-recessed rout and an angled neck pocket, I will (hopefully) get something that I am used to.
I also remember reading somewhere that it might be possible to get just the area behinf the bridge carved ut, thus ensuring that the D-Tuna can work correctly.

But I will ask about all the options you have mentioned - if Warmoth Sales ever gets back to me…. (wink, wink) could @aarontunes ping somebody (thank you)

 

[bruzanhd]

Thank you again @stratamania and @bruzanhd ! I now understand better what the options are - and mean, and they are definitely being narrowed down!

Knowing what to look for I googled about EVH Wolfgangs and forums claim that the Floyds are all flat mounted on Wolfgangs, and the neck is angled. You can divebomb only. No trem-stopper.
However, on the arc/curved tops (like my Stealth Special) the Floyd is actually - pervertedly? - slightly inside the body! Apparently Eddie always flat-mounted his tremolos on guitars that had flat bodies, so on a curved top he wanted the Floyd to be at the exact same height - thus carving a bit under the Floyd.
And yes, it looks like that on mine, too.

So if I order a non-recessed rout and an angled neck pocket, I will (hopefully) get something that I am used to.
I also remember reading somewhere that it might be possible to get just the area behinf the bridge carved ut, thus ensuring that the D-Tuna can work correctly.

But I will ask about all the options you have mentioned - if Warmoth Sales ever gets back to me…. (wink, wink) could @aarontunes ping somebody (thank you)

They will assure you that the standard non recessed angled pocket will set up the way you want. They have everything dialed in well. My preference is slightly more idiosyncratic than what’s common. So take my information with a grain of salt. Shims and trem stoppers will save the day in the odd chance you encounter an issue.

Both of my builds were based on eddie's 5150 Kramer which had a bizarre floyd setup that was completely decked with the floyd's block shim and tension plate removed. This messes with the geometry which meant I need alternate neck angles and pocket depths.

 

[VanHeGen]

@bruzanhd thank you for the update! Your builds are amazing and so are your threads, but yes, I will definitely stick to what it ”safe” for my first build!