More body shapes in the online bulder

TenThumbs

Active member
Messages
37
Apologies if this isn't the appropriate place for website suggestions.

I'd like to see more of the body shapes available in the online builder. Surely the basic tech is already in place and it's just a question of making templates of the other shapes? Just seems a massive shame not to be able to plan a soloist, VIP, or velocity, while I can pick from endless variations of tele....

I also find myself wondering if there's a way to do graphic representations of online neck builds..?

Maybe even link the two, so you could plan neck and body AND see how they go together..?
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,214
I can't speak for Warmoth, but I know they changed quite a bit on the site in recent months. One of the things mentioned is that the builder option visualizations would reduce as it was a lot to be able to do and keep all the variations etc.

For visualization, you can in the showcase visualize how a body will look with a neck and a limited number of pickups and parts.

The other way to make mockups of builds would be to use Photoshop, or Gimp and put together ideas that way. (Ghotiphry on the forum posts a lot of his ideas for designs that he has done)
 

Cagey

Senior member
Messages
24,425
This subject came up before after they first did the Strat/Tele builder modeling. Apparently - and I can easily believe this, having been a programmer - it's a nightmare of coding (read: very expensive time/money-wise) for little return, and the subsequent maintenance causes their coders to question their reasons to live. Then, any subsequent change in body style, options or photography has rippling effects throughout the site - the dreaded "unintended consequences" - that make the whole idea impractical.

As it is, Warmoth's site is the standard by which all others are judged (and found seriously wanting). First, they have actual photos of the product you're buying, as opposed to examples of what you might get. The "Showcase" isn't a wish list - it's a WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) photographic record of the actual parts that are in stock, and their photographer is very good at what she does. I've long since lost count of how many of their products have moved through my shop, but it's safe to say that if it looks good on the site, it'll look better in real life - sometimes dramatically so, and especially so in the case of figured woods. On the (very) rare occasion I've seen complaints, they're about color and can be attributed to the user's monitor calibration, not the photograph.

As Stratamania mentioned, Photoshop (or GIMP) is a good way to mock things up if you're familiar with those utilities, although I can certainly understand if they're not viable options. I know I have all sorts of trouble with them, since I'm not a graphics guy. But, there's always the search function on the site, which can return some interesting images. Most guys who put things together here will at least post cellphone pics if nothing else, and some go well above and beyond the call of duty. There's also an online utility called Kisekae that lets some people model things. It fights me, but I suspect my computer is locked down too tight for it. You could give that a shot. Might not give you the exact model body you want, but you can see how different options/colors work together.
 

Wolff05

Senior member
Messages
134
Cagey said:
As it is, Warmoth's site is the standard by which all others are judged (and found seriously wanting). First, they have actual photos of the product you're buying, as opposed to examples of what you might get. The "Showcase" isn't a wish list - it's a WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) photographic record of the actual parts that are in stock, and their photographer is very good at what he does. I've long since lost count of how many of their products have moved through my shop, but it's safe to say that if it looks good on the site, it'll look better in real life - sometimes dramatically so, and especially so in the case of figured woods. On the rare occasion I've seen complaints, they can be attributed to the user's monitor calibration, not the photograph.

Stop making us blush!

The only correction I'll make is "their photographer is very good at what he she does."  :icon_biggrin:
 

Cagey

Senior member
Messages
24,425
Sorry about that!

Gender pronouns have become so volatile these days I'm gonna have to start speaking in the third person all the time :laughing7:

Edit: corrected original
 

Wolff05

Senior member
Messages
134
We may have joked about naming the Working Man Tribute the "Working or Non-Working Person's Tribute", but it was a little cumbersome.
 

mayfly

Senior member
Messages
8,232
Cagey said:
Gender pronouns have become so volatile these days I'm gonna have to start speaking in the third person all the time :laughing7:

Mayfly already speaks in the third person all the time...
 

bagman67

Senior member
Messages
8,245
I prefer non-gendered pronouns.

"It puts the lotion in the bucket or it gets the hose again."
 

rgand

Senior member
Messages
5,934
I tried using "he/she/it" but the way I talk, it sounded like I was swearing.
 

The Aaron

Administrator
Staff member
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2,536
Regarding the OP, I don't know enough words to be able to fully explain to everyone how difficult the visual builder is to develop and maintain.


What you see on the Warmoth site is pretty unprecedented. We haven't been able to find any other website doing what we are doing...and believe me: we have looked. The closest thing we have found is a "build your own pizza" app, and even that was child's play compared to the Warmoth builder. It was just a la cart choices, where as ours uses conditional logic all along the way to dynamically change your remaining options depending on choices (or combinations of choices) you have made previously. And right now I'm just talking about the NON-VISUAL builder. On the visual builder, you also have the added complexity of layers and layers of masks, tied to all the aforementioned conditional logic. It is definitely a fun thing to play with for users, but from the admin side it is very daunting. Adding new models to it isn't a trivial thing.


 

new-killer-star

Senior member
Messages
266
Thank you so much, it’s really hard to deliver this kind of complexity to customers.

I think we all really appreciate it and of course anytime you can add more we would love it and will then ask you for a gazillion more things which are also hard and expensive to build.
 

rgand

Senior member
Messages
5,934
I have to agree that the Warmoth builder is the best one around. At least by what I've seen. Now, if you combine it with that 'build your own pizzza' app... :icon_biggrin:
 

TenThumbs

Active member
Messages
37
double A said:
Regarding the OP, I don't know enough words to be able to fully explain to everyone how difficult the visual builder is to develop and maintain.


What you see on the Warmoth site is pretty unprecedented. We haven't been able to find any other website doing what we are doing...and believe me: we have looked. The closest thing we have found is a "build your own pizza" app, and even that was child's play compared to the Warmoth builder. It was just a la cart choices, where as ours uses conditional logic all along the way to dynamically change your remaining options depending on choices (or combinations of choices) you have made previously. And right now I'm just talking about the NON-VISUAL builder. On the visual builder, you also have the added complexity of layers and layers of masks, tied to all the aforementioned conditional logic. It is definitely a fun thing to play with for users, but from the admin side it is very daunting. Adding new models to it isn't a trivial thing.

Entirely fair and appreciated - in my naivety I kind of expected it to be simple, goes to show how much I know huh? :toothy12:

As a few have already stated, Warmoth's current builder is far and away the best example of this kind of thing out there anywhere, which is why I'm hopelessly addicted to it...
 

The Aaron

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,536
FYI, the new website we are developing will have a much simplified visual body builder. You will be able to do most everything you can do now, except for adding a finish. We are opting to omit that part for two reasons: 1)it's the hardest part of the builder to implement and maintain, and 2) the renderings suck. They look ugly, which impedes sales, and they set up false expectations. We often deal with customer's who are disappointed that their paint doesn't look like what they saw in the builder.


We predict much wailing and gnashing of teeth.


As a peace offering, we will be offering a visual neck builder. Yes, you heard right. It's already done, and it looks pretty darn neat! Includes inlays, binding, etc.
 

rgand

Senior member
Messages
5,934
Looking forward to that neck builder. When will that be available on the site?
 

The Aaron

Administrator
Staff member
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2,536
Rgand said:
Looking forward to that neck builder. When will that be available on the site?


Probably still a year away, if I'm being realistic. It's by FAAAR the biggest project I've ever worked on. I attached a couple screen shots, to tantalize and delight. The first is the new visual neck builder. The second is the new body finish app. In place of the phony, faux colors of the current visual body builder, you will now be able to see photographic examples of the finish colors, in gloss and satin, with the option to see trans, burst, and dye finishes over several different species of wood.

 

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Sovereign_13

Senior member
Messages
311
Honestly, (and I say this as someone who has beat my head against worked with GUI-type applications before and all the headaches therein), I would gladly trade the builder for Warmoth-quality photo samples of "most of the finishes over the more common woods".  Kind of like the "color options" menu for bodies, but expanded to include most of the regular wood offerings (alder, ash, mahogany, basswood, etc).  While it's fun to see a representation of your $1,200 custom exotic-wood guitar body, the fact is that if you can get a general idea of what your finish looks like over your wood choice (or something similar) you don't really need to see the exact shape of the guitar with the pickguard mask and the knob and pickup overlays.

MinWax does this in a lot of stores that sell their stains/finishes.  They have a chart with little pine and oak wafers with "typical results" finishes on them in all the colors.  Woodcraft also has finish displays showing how their products look when applied.  In my mind, that's plenty to make an educated choice.

Obviously far be it from me to tell anyone how to run their website or business, but hosting pictures (even lots of pictures) of finished wood should be less of a headache IMO and just as helpful.  In fact, you probably have most of the pictures already from showcase photos.

Edit: see, double A snuck in there and basically said that's what they're going to do (about the finished-wood sample photos).  I should probably start looking before I leap into a rant.
 

rgand

Senior member
Messages
5,934
double A said:
Rgand said:
Looking forward to that neck builder. When will that be available on the site?


Probably still a year away, if I'm being realistic. It's by FAAAR the biggest project I've ever worked on. I attached a couple screen shots, to tantalize and delight. The first is the new visual neck builder. The second is the new body finish app. In place of the phony, faux colors of the current visual body builder, you will now be able to see photographic examples of the finish colors, in gloss and satin, with the option to see trans, burst, and dye finishes over several different species of wood.
Thanks, those look good. Both should help people visualize the end result. But then, I kind of like the mystery of what it'll look like when it arrives.

This does mean, though, that in addition to the neck I'm currently musing about I'll have to buy yet another neck after the builder comes out so I can give it a try. :icon_biggrin:
 

Cagey

Senior member
Messages
24,425
double A said:
We predict much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

You need to hire Guido. When Spike gets a call from a disappointed customer, he can offer to transfer him to his boss...

KevZFIjk_400x400.jpg


What, you don' like it? C'mere. Lemme see if I can jam it somewheres where you will...
 

BigSteve22

Senior member
Messages
2,798
double A said:
We predict much wailing and gnashing of teeth....
Wail,wail! Gnash, Gnash! Perhaps a a sample gallery of the various trans finishes on various woods, just give people an idea of how thing might turn out???  ???
 
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