"Hope and Change" You Can Rely On (iPod tax???!!!)

dbw said:
And as a firm believer in... the face of... um...

Whatever.  Yay weed, boobs, beer, and guitars.

First post here. 

I'm glad we finally found something we can all agree on.

I'll get back to you with my guitar building questions soon. (Too much of the above distracting me at the moment.)
dbw said:
I live in Madison, Wisconsin... marijuana was decriminalized 30 years ago here.   :guitarplayer2:
Yea, it amazed me that it took so long.. 30 years behind the times for sure.. 
Ok I gotta chime in on this.  I am a gun owner and a criminal.  Totally legally.  I owned the gun before I got busted for marijuana possession.  Nobody ever came and forced me to turn it in.  If they did I probably would have shot them, cause I'm a mentally unstable drug dealer, right?  I use my guns for hunting.  I have a conceal carry permit which I have had and have renewed since I got busted, although I really see no need to carry a weapon in public.  I did my time like a man too I wound up in jail for a while over the reefer charge.  I was reading about toothbrushes as weapons.  Spend some time in the joint and you will see how dangerous a toothbrush can be.  I saw a bunch of guys get shanked with toothbrushes, and the guys that were the attackers had every intention of killing their victims.  What does the system do about that?  Nothing at all.  They figure if you wound up in jail and someone comes after you with a shank you deserved it.  No one was ever prosecuted for their actions.  It was actually a pretty big scandal when the word got out.  I think we should have the right to choose ANYTHING, guns, drugs, boobs, whatever.  Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  My definition of happiness is smoking a joint, while looking at a nice set of boobs on TV while cleaning my guns.

By the way if you want to buy an unregulated gun come to Pennsylvania, you can buy a musket rifle or an old style 'wild west' pistol right over the counter as long as you are 18  No registration, no background check at all.  Might want to double check this, it has been a while since I bought one, but the last time I went in and just like that I bought a Colt 1851 navy replica.  It'll kill you for sure, just takes forever to reload, so I gotta make every shot count.

Please no personal attacks on my stance on this.  It doesn't make me stupid or ignorant, this is how my life panned out.  BTW I have not been in any sort of trouble in a very long time, I learned my lesson the hard way.  I have since married and started a family and have not been so much as pulled over for speeding.  I plead guilty to misdomeaner drug possession and had to do the jail time to avoid a felony conviction, all in the name of my right to vote, because you cannot exercise your right to vote if you are a felon.  And try to get a job with a felony conviction that entails anything other than asking if you want fries with that  I still feel like my vote counts, and I have not missed an election since I was 18.  So if you don't like the laws go and vote the bastards out of office........  Again please I beg of you not to make any personal attacks on me on this stance, cause I'll get pretty nasty about it.  Don't judge me or my situation.  Our whole system is flawed if you ask me.  The poor people get poorer (if that is a word) and the rich get richer (if that is a word)

For someone moving to the US from Holland, it was hard to understand that Weed and Boobies were illegal while guns and violence are totally acceptable here.. (with violence I mean certain movies/series shown on tv during the daytime and early evenings)
Weed has been (kind of) legal for years and topless woman were very usual in public swimming areas and beaches.
I can even remember that nudity (non-sexual, not full-on close-up penetration) was shown during daytime, or even in commercials.

I don't really have a problem with guns, since at this point, I like the idea of having more 'good' people with guns than 'bad' people with guns around. I still don't understand why americans are afraid of boobs though..

It's the WASPs that run everything here that like guns and think they are moraly superior so the rest of us cant enjoy a good T&A show without getting shot at. :laughing7:

bpmorton777 said:

It's the WASPs that run everything here that like guns and think they are moraly superior so the rest of us cant enjoy a good T&A show without getting shot at. :laughing7:


From Wikipedia:
Oligarchy (Greek Ὀλιγαρχία, Oligarkhía) is a form of government where political power effectively rests with a small elite segment of society distinguished by royalty, wealth, family, military powers or occult spiritual hegemony. The word oligarchy is from the Greek words for "few" (ὀλίγος olígos) and "rule" (ἀρχή arkhē). Such states are often controlled by politically powerful families whose children were heavily conditioned and mentored to be heirs of the power of the oligarchy. This type of power by its very nature may not be exercised openly; the oligarchs preferring to remain "the power behind the throne", exerting control through economic means. Oligarchies have been tyrannical throughout history, being completely reliant on public servitude to exist. Although Aristotle pioneered the use of the term as a synonym for rule by the rich, for which the exact term is plutocracy, oligarchy is not always a rule by wealth, as oligarchs can simply be a privileged group.

Skull and Bones is a secret society based at Yale University, in New Haven, Connecticut. The society's alumni organization, which owns the society's real property and oversees the organization's activity, is the Russell Trust Association, and is named after General William Huntington Russell[1] founding member of the Bones' organization along with fellow classmate Alphonso Taft. In conversation, the group is known as "Bones", and members have been known as "Bonesmen".[2]

In the 2004 U.S. Presidential election, both the Democratic and Republican nominees were alumni. George W. Bush writes in his autobiography, "[In my] senior year I joined Skull and Bones, a secret society; so secret, I can't say anything more."[3] When asked what it meant that he and Bush were both Bonesmen, former Presidential candidate John Kerry said, "Not much because it's a secret."

Freemasonry is a fraternal organisation that arose from obscure origins in the late 16th to early 17th century. Freemasonry now exists in various forms all over the world, with a membership estimated at around 5 million (including around 480,000 in England, Scotland and Ireland alone, and just under two million in the United States).[1][2] The various forms all share moral and metaphysical ideals, which include, in most cases, a constitutional declaration of belief in a Supreme Being.[3]

The fraternity is administratively organised into Grand Lodges (or sometimes Orients), each of which governs its own jurisdiction, which consists of subordinate (or constituent) Lodges. Grand Lodges recognise each other through a process of landmarks and regularity. There are also appendant bodies, which are organisations related to the main branch of Freemasonry, but with their own independent administration.

Freemasonry uses the metaphors of operative stonemasons' tools and implements, against the allegorical backdrop of the building of King Solomon's Temple, to convey what has been described by both Masons and critics as "a system of morality veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols."

tfarny said:
Well actually superL, it is the reality in most other industrialized countries that there are extremely few guns, and people truly don't need one to defend themselves.

Regardless of where you live, the potential for an ugly situation exists.

tfarny said:
That's what "reality states." You're saying that America isn't capable of doing something that lots of other countries have definitely done -  sounds pretty defeatist if you ask me.

Like I said:

So, as long as guns are physically present, and as long as creeps, criminals and whackjobs can get their hands on one (legally or illegally - doesn't matter), we all have to deal with the fact that we may at some point in time have to handle the possibility of an uncomfortable situation whereupon said miscreants are pointing said gun at us.

So, if'n you wanna be one of the ones who cowers in the corner pissing their pants sans firearm when something horrible does happen, be my guest.  You can be the willing victim; keep your head in the sand... or you can take charge with the right to defend yourself that you're entitled to in this nation.

And again, like I said previously - don't penalize the good citizens just because some dumbass shot himself or because some whackjob blew his top and offed his coworkers; that makes no logical sense whatsoever.  And furthermore, you have no right to do so; thanks to the 2nd Amendment.

And to deny the base depravity in human nature by pretending that violence can't happen to people (or even lessen) if firearms are banned is sheer ignorance and pure childishness.  The world is a really ugly place.  One day you're here, the next you're gone.  People have been killing others for millennia for the pettiest of reasons; using implements other than firearms... and still do.  More reality for ya.
Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.

- Gandhi: Chapter XXVII, "The Recruiting Campaign," in his autobiography, My Experiments with Truth
That's the fundamental conflict over the second amendment... whether we as the PEOPLE have the COLLECTIVE right to bear arms (clearly we do under the Constitution), or whether EACH of us has a CIVIL right to bear arms (this is where we disagree).  Personally I am an advocate of gun control.  I understand the opposing viewpoint and disagree with it.  I believe Ghandi would have agreed with me.  Though admittedly, I stand slightly to the left of Ghandi politically.    :)

theklanch, I completely agree with your arguments about our prison system.  It's horrific; rape, assault, and murder are rampant and generally go unprosecuted.  Nothing short of a complete crackdown on crime in prisons will stop it, but you're right... people just don't care enough.  Rape in prison should be punishable by hefty prison time for one offense, just like rape outside.  Prisoners who commit violent crimes against other prisoners should be placed in solitary confinement until their release.  Guards who abuse prisoners should face a minimum of 10 years prison time.  And dismantling our absurd drug laws will help make sure that the only people in prison are actual criminals, and free up the resources to keep the real criminals in prison, safe from each other and where we're safe from them.  At the very least we should have separate prison systems for drug offenders and violent criminals.

Speaking of violent criminals, confessed war criminal Dick Cheney should be hanged.  If he'd been at Nuremberg we wouldn't have hesitated.  There should be a warrant for his arrest in every jurisdiction in the world, along with Osama bin Laden and Omar al-Bashir.  The fact that these three walk free while dope smokers are raped in American prisons makes me shake with rage.

If I were the President, I'd pardon every marijuana offender in the country and extradite Cheney to Iraqi custody in shackles.  Alas, I am not likely to be elected President.  For some reason a lot of people disagree with me on these points.  :help:  Feel free to write me in in 2020, though... :p
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/23/dallas.road.shootings/index.html  <-- not possible with toothbrushes.  Just sayin'
You guys think we're goin down fast?  any predictions for the next, say, 20 years?  curious to hear whatcha'll think.
Hmmm...If Obama disappoints, maybe I'll write in "dbw" next time, or just draw a little pic of your icon. This thread was more amusing when it detoured into breasts and such.

SuperL, you're ignoring the point that several people have made - there's a big difference between "penalize the good citizens...take away their right to defend themselves...roll over when the bad guys come" and requiring a few days waiting period while the government tries to see if you're a nutcase. You're also conflating individual behavior (the right to defend yourself) with collective laws like a waiting period for guns, which are not mutually exclusive. In other words, if you're a 'good guy', the waiting period/background check etc. isn't all that big a deal, you should have taken a gun safety course, etc. etc. anyhow.

My feeling on the 2nd amendment is that it was a reaction to a particular historical circumstance. The British made a variety of moves to restrict gun ownership because they were afraid of rebellion, yet a fair % of colonists truly needed guns on a fairly regular basis (bears, hunting, etc.), and then postwar, we didn't have a standing army of any type and so the government wanted to ensure that it could easily construct militias in event of war. Hence, the often-ignored preamble, "A well-regulated militia being essential to the security of a free state...." It doesn't say anything in there about the right of 'individual self defense' or the whole 'tree of liberty refreshed with the blood of patriots' thing - Jefferson said a bunch of kooky things but he wasn't the only person who had a hand in writing and approving this stuff thank god. I also think that because we've built almost a religion out of the Bill of Rights in this country, it's much harder to have rational discussion about this issue. Lots of other aspects of the constitution have been changed (ahem, slavery!), but to make a change to any aspect of the bill of rights, to most Americans, would be like taking a dump in a church pew. I think that for non-Americans, this aspect of our country's gun issue is really not well understood.
Finally, regarding the 2nd amendment, if we really take it literally, ALL gun control is unconstitutional - but do you want little kids to be able to buy uzis and grenades at the candy store, or violent felons to be able to get out of prison, walk across the street, buy an M60, turn around and shoot up the prison? Maybe you do, but it doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Whew, I'm about done on this topic! Great distraction from work.
Oh yeah, and the war on drugs is a travesty and a national disgrace. More and more people and even state governments are agreeing, so maybe there's hope for a change there.

to make a change to any aspect of the bill of rights, to most Americans, would be like taking a dump in a church pew.

It is interesting how people get all holy and reverent about
only when it's about the parts they agree with, and are so very ready to amend it whenever they disagree....  :help: I think we could readily chuck out large sections and redo it from the point of a 21st-century view, the problem is that so many of the members of our entire government - all three branches - are wholly corporatist and any rewrite under those circumstances won't be too kind on "the people". :eek: At this sorry-ass juncture in history, Thomas Jefferson's ideas are the only thing protecting us against Exxon, Boeing and Citibank. And Jimi Hendrix is selling Budweiser.... :toothy11:
Well I never said I wanted to amend the constitution, only that the placement of the 2nd amendment makes it harder to change than if it were somewhere else in the document. And we do fetishize our constitution - tons of other countries have really the same freedoms that we do, sometimes more (Amsterdam!), yet most of us really buy into the whole "shining city on a hill" stuff. I'm not sure any of Thomas Jefferson's ideas are protecting us from much of anything at this point, sadly though. DMCA, anyone? Hamdi (US citizen held at Guantanamo)? You KNOW I could go on...
Returning to the original topic... here's yet more BS:

"State Health Commissioner Richard Daines has become the point man for one of the more controversial of Gov. David Paterson's revenue-generating budget proposals: The so-called "fat tax" - an 18 percent levy on sugary drinks like non-diet soda.

Daines, a Spitzer administration holdover who generally keeps a fairly low profile, has recorded a YouTube manifesto in defense of the tax, which the administration insists is really more about health care policy than making money off soda-drinking New Yorkers."

BS - it's always about making money with their kind.

"Youse" NYers need to stop voting in these socialist pukes already... lest you find the gov't "taking care of you" while they continue to take away your money and your rights... a little at a time.
Gun control is a lot like home security systems.  People pay all this money for a system that quite frankly does more to keep them and their kids in than it does to keep someone that truly wants to get in out.  Criminals will find guns.  Law abiding citizens will not if they are legally restrained.  I have no issue limiting the purchases of individuals with mental health issues (depending on how those issues are defined) or criminals or other such people.  Forgive me, but I think the kind of gun control that some people talk about doesn't do squat to keep crooks from getting guns.
Jeez did you really have to resurrect this thread?  Leave New York to the New Yorkers and mind your own business.  I take it you don't live in a blue state, so let it lie.  Nobody's forcing you to move to New York.
rightintheface said:
i once crapped my pants because i went on a carnival ride after eating a whole bunch of mexican

Alright - I admit that I am in fact NOT drinking beer right now.  But if I was, this would definitely be a "beer through the nose moment"