"Hope and Change" You Can Rely On (iPod tax???!!!)
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bpmorton777
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"The root cause of the current financial woe, cascading through credit crisis, bank and business failure is the mandate by our Government, that banks give loans to people not fully qualified to pay them back."
sorry, im a bit ignorant on this, what mandate was it? Are you talking about HUD?
Brian
sorry, im a bit ignorant on this, what mandate was it? Are you talking about HUD?
Brian
Interesting that they tax Ipods and cap the salaries of auto workers, but no caps on the salaries of lobbyists, TV commentators, stock market hoodlums, defense contractor CEO's, oil company & pharmaceutical executives... how about an emergency tax on Paris Hilton, just in general? :icon_tongue: A $10,000-a-year tax on all non-commercial SUV's and monster trucks? Grind up the congressmen and feed 'em to the homeless, I say.... though the meat might be too rancid right out of the chute. :laughing7:
Suggested reading: "The Great Derangement" by Matt Taibbi - how come all the congressmen on C-Span are passing bills honoring golfers & naming bridges for celebrities, and all the laws that screw you are discussed at 3am in closed committees? :-\ Oh, that's why.
Suggested reading: "The Great Derangement" by Matt Taibbi - how come all the congressmen on C-Span are passing bills honoring golfers & naming bridges for celebrities, and all the laws that screw you are discussed at 3am in closed committees? :-\ Oh, that's why.
While that was certainly a contributing factor, those HUD loans were a very small percentage of the whole "subprime crisis" which in itself was really only the most vulnerable part of a massively overleveraged financial system. The "Mandate" was that the government keep its requirements for federally subsidized home loans low in order to, as you said, allow risky candidates to buy homes. However, that has nothing whatsoever to do with what private banks did - they were not required to give any loans to anyone, yet did so to a huge number of sketchy candidates in order to make a quick buck. Banks like Countrywide, etc., were not dragged kicking and screaming into making loans they didn't want to give - they just didn't assess risk properly and were out there trying to make a quick buck without thinking (or being encouraged by the government) to think of the long-term consequences. Fannie and Freddie did not = the entire housing market, not by a long shot. That's not to say that people shouldn't buy more home than they can afford, but you can't let the microeconomic actors (the banks and the buyers) bring the whole macroeconomic house tumbling down. Anyhow once these things started to go bad, the very shaky house of cards that was Bear Stearns and Lehman brothers for instance, holding not just bad mortgage debt but totally opaque, unanalyzable 'instruments' like default credit swaps, started to get scrutinized a lot more closely. Basically their books were filled with debt so complex no one could even understand it, all given a good risk rating by the ratings agencies with very little real analysis. It's the financial industry and the lack of government oversight that's at fault here, just as it was in 1929, not liberal do-gooders and poor people trying to buy their first house. If the problem had just been limited to the subprime issue, we'd probably be looking at a recession next year. As it is, it's going to be lot worse than that and affect a lot of us pretty badly. That's why I said that if I only have to pay an Ipod tax I'd be really happy.
dbw: I'm a prof of education at CUNY Hunter College, I train ESL teachers and do research in educational testing. Just finishing my first semester.
dbw: I'm a prof of education at CUNY Hunter College, I train ESL teachers and do research in educational testing. Just finishing my first semester.
I am totally serious about a gun, with the expected depression, theres gonna be more desparate people doing stupid things, not me I hope,
I don't wanna get caught in a situation where I'm thinking " Damn, If I had a gun I could stop this fool"
Figures, CB would have amo for an M60 lol, This might be a good time to find a new George Washington to rally behind and to take the country back, A high Power rifle with a good scope might be in the future too.
Anyone wanna vollunteer to be the countrys new founder?
I don't wanna get caught in a situation where I'm thinking " Damn, If I had a gun I could stop this fool"
Figures, CB would have amo for an M60 lol, This might be a good time to find a new George Washington to rally behind and to take the country back, A high Power rifle with a good scope might be in the future too.
Anyone wanna vollunteer to be the countrys new founder?
rightintheface
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when things get tough, here in australia we do two things: get drunk.
...
one thing.
on the issue of guns.
i fired a .22 once. the only thing i've fired since then was a piece of PVC (plumbing) pipe thats rigged like a rocket launcher, and it shoots potatoes :-\
man, i love this country :icon_biggrin:
...
one thing.
on the issue of guns.
i fired a .22 once. the only thing i've fired since then was a piece of PVC (plumbing) pipe thats rigged like a rocket launcher, and it shoots potatoes :-\
man, i love this country :icon_biggrin:
bpmorton777
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Alfang: That's why we just elected a new president...and he wasnt a republican.... :toothy10:
Guns: gus are nice and all....Diriving home from work one day last month passed by one of the local tech companies...40 cop cars, 4 fire trucks, three ambulences, and coroner's office truck. Some guy got laid off and came back to the company and killed three people in cold blood...with a gun. Guns are a great thing to have.
here's the news report from that famous fair and balanced news organization FOX
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,452666,00.html
Brian
Guns: gus are nice and all....Diriving home from work one day last month passed by one of the local tech companies...40 cop cars, 4 fire trucks, three ambulences, and coroner's office truck. Some guy got laid off and came back to the company and killed three people in cold blood...with a gun. Guns are a great thing to have.
here's the news report from that famous fair and balanced news organization FOX
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,452666,00.html
Brian
Superlizard
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bpmorton777 said:
Your logic is specious.
Who's to say that if guns didn't even actually exist (say like, weren't invented yet), he wouldn't have killed those 3 people with a steak knife?
And okay... let's say steak knives weren't invented yet - or any knife for that matter - who's to say he wouldn't have killed those 3 people with a pencil (sharp pointy object)?
Alright... let's go one further... let's say guns, knives and pencils were non-existent (or outlawed LOL)...
Who's to say he wouldn't have killed those 3 people with a tree branch or a rock?
No wait... let's go even further...
Who's to say he wouldn't have killed those 3 people with his bare hands ?
So, the point you're missing is that if someone wants to kill another human being bad enough, they'll do it regardless of the implement used.
The problem therefore is the person, not the implement.
And to add a twist, what if each of those 3 people murdered happened to have had a firearm (and were trained to use them) when the murderer came in?
See how that works?
This is always a fun argument to take down. So it's just as likely he would have been able to murder three adults in cold blood with a steak knife, or his bare hands, as with a gun, and therefore guns are not dangerous because "people kill people"?
In that case, why should I have a gun - if an intruder comes into my home, I'll just take him down with a steak knife! No, better yet I'll murder him with my bare hands!!! Cause I'm really capable of that, especially when I haven't had my morning coffee.
Ever wonder why you you've never read the headline, "Deranged janitor enters school and murders 27 children with a mop handle"? Probably because it's extremely hard to do. Guns are more dangerous than mop handles in the hands of people attempting to do violence, and in fact are also more dangerous in the hands of people attempting to clean them or just have fun with them, and arguments which equate guns and steak knives or whatever usually omit this rather obvious fact.
So, the reason I want a gun is because it's a LOT easier for people to kill people with guns than without them - that's why you want one, and that's why we don't want violent criminals or deranged emotionally unhinged people to have them, right? In other words, if guns were in fact no different than a steak knife there would be no real reason for you to care about keeping them legal.
In that case, why should I have a gun - if an intruder comes into my home, I'll just take him down with a steak knife! No, better yet I'll murder him with my bare hands!!! Cause I'm really capable of that, especially when I haven't had my morning coffee.
Ever wonder why you you've never read the headline, "Deranged janitor enters school and murders 27 children with a mop handle"? Probably because it's extremely hard to do. Guns are more dangerous than mop handles in the hands of people attempting to do violence, and in fact are also more dangerous in the hands of people attempting to clean them or just have fun with them, and arguments which equate guns and steak knives or whatever usually omit this rather obvious fact.
So, the reason I want a gun is because it's a LOT easier for people to kill people with guns than without them - that's why you want one, and that's why we don't want violent criminals or deranged emotionally unhinged people to have them, right? In other words, if guns were in fact no different than a steak knife there would be no real reason for you to care about keeping them legal.
Oh, and the second piece, I forget:
Scenario 1: You're having a meeting with two of your coworkers when a crazy guy comes in armed with a steak knife and he attempts to murder you all. None of you has a gun.
Scenario 2: You're having a meeting with two of your coworkers when a crazy guy comes in armed with a 9mm Glock and ammo to spare. You each keep a loaded gun in the back of your desk drawer.
In which scenario are you most likely to die? In which scenario are your coworkers most likely to die? How about innocent bystanders?
My point is that you guys are basically letting Clint Eastwood movie scenarios determine our arguments about guns. In fact, guns are pretty dangerous. That's why I want one!
Scenario 1: You're having a meeting with two of your coworkers when a crazy guy comes in armed with a steak knife and he attempts to murder you all. None of you has a gun.
Scenario 2: You're having a meeting with two of your coworkers when a crazy guy comes in armed with a 9mm Glock and ammo to spare. You each keep a loaded gun in the back of your desk drawer.
In which scenario are you most likely to die? In which scenario are your coworkers most likely to die? How about innocent bystanders?
My point is that you guys are basically letting Clint Eastwood movie scenarios determine our arguments about guns. In fact, guns are pretty dangerous. That's why I want one!
bpmorton777
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I understand the logic behind "if everybody had a gun" and "he could have killed them with his bare hands",
however,
1) he probably would have killed at least one person even if everybody there had a gun
2) what are the chances that any of the victoms actualy had thir guns on them at the time and not locked in there gun safe or in their desk drawer?
3) if he tried to kill them with his bare hands or a knife they would have had time to react..call for help, wrestle him down to the ground etc.
Phill Hartman would be alive today if he had not bought a gun for home security.
Brian
however,
1) he probably would have killed at least one person even if everybody there had a gun
2) what are the chances that any of the victoms actualy had thir guns on them at the time and not locked in there gun safe or in their desk drawer?
3) if he tried to kill them with his bare hands or a knife they would have had time to react..call for help, wrestle him down to the ground etc.
Phill Hartman would be alive today if he had not bought a gun for home security.
Brian
Superlizard
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tfarny said:
Show me where I wrote "guns are not dangerous"... or even "guns are not *as* dangerous".
I never wrote that; not once... nor did I even imply that.
Stop falsely attributing statements or implications on my behalf to fit your "argument".
tfarny said:
Yeah, so how does your statement there disprove anything that I've said?
tfarny said:
The whole point being that people will kill each other regardless of the implement used... hello?
tfarny said:
The whole "guns kill people" schtick used by those who are anti-gun is the specious logic I was referring to. Knives kill people... rocks kill people... etc etc etc.
Outlaw guns, and only criminals will have them, because they don't follow the law (Captain Obvious Tip O' The Day: that's why they're called criminals).
One should never **** with a person's right to defend themselves. If I choose to defend myself from the crazies out there with a firearm, then by gum, that's how I'm gonna do it. Don't penalize me or other good citizens just because some whackjob offed his co-workers with a gun.
What if he did it with a toothbrush? Would we hear the lamentations of those "anti-gun" people crying, "BAN TOOTHBRUSHES!" and "TOOTHBRUSHES KILL PEOPLE!" and "TOOTHBRUSHES=MURDER!"... would we try to pass laws banning the use of toothbrushes?
We would, if we applied the same specious logic said "anti-gun" people use towards the firearm debate - and I don't even wanna think about dental floss...
Superlizard
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bpmorton777 said:
IIRC, Phil Hartman's (RIP) wife was suffering from serious psychological issues and was taking meds for it.
We have a "no-weapons" policy here on the college campus... us staff are not allowed weapons of any kind, even with a conceal/carry permit.
Imagine, if you will, some disgruntled Med student coming in here with a weapon - think of how many people said disgruntled Med student could take down before they would be stopped...
Guns exist (and have existed for a long time) and are out there; no law will stop people from having one or using one; good citizens nor criminals. This is called reality.
The solution is to arm the good citizens so they can defend themselves in these cases. And of course - any way you slice it, in a critical situation like this, someone's going to eventually die or get injured.
My whole point was that 'he could have killed him with a toothbrush" argument is bogus because it's really hard to kill people with toothbrushes. In fact, it's extremely unlikely that that guy could have / would have been able to kill three adult males with a toothbrush, to the point that's not a worthwhile thing to discuss.
Killing people with toothbrushes is not a thing that happens, it's not why people buy toothbrushes. You're right that people kill people...and they usually do that with a gun and not a toothbrush. So in some fantasy world we could imagine somebody committing mass murder with a toothbrush, and admit that it's not impossible. So what? It really has nothing to do with the fact that guns are dangerous.
The difference between a gun and any other thing is that access to a gun makes it a LOT easier to kill somebody with very little to no planning or skill. Therefore, if there are a lot more guns in a society, there will be a lot more of the kinds of stories like the above, and if guns are hard to come by there will be a lot fewer. That's why cops are so into gun control! So there's clearly a relationship between stories like that one, and gun ownership being easy in this country.
I started out by saying I wanted to buy a gun, not that I wanted to eliminate your right to have one - I don't know where you got that idea. Besides I have no power over your 2nd amendment rights so it's kind of pointless. But for instance if you're a recently released violent mental patient, and you want to buy an RPG and live next to me, I think I legitimately have an issue with that. Similarly, I do think that a hip-hop concert is a much safer place if there are NO guns, than if EVERYONE has a gun. There's a difference between gun control and wanting there to be fewer guns in general, and believing that noone should ever have any guns. If you have any advice as to what to buy for home security, I'd love to hear it!
Killing people with toothbrushes is not a thing that happens, it's not why people buy toothbrushes. You're right that people kill people...and they usually do that with a gun and not a toothbrush. So in some fantasy world we could imagine somebody committing mass murder with a toothbrush, and admit that it's not impossible. So what? It really has nothing to do with the fact that guns are dangerous.
The difference between a gun and any other thing is that access to a gun makes it a LOT easier to kill somebody with very little to no planning or skill. Therefore, if there are a lot more guns in a society, there will be a lot more of the kinds of stories like the above, and if guns are hard to come by there will be a lot fewer. That's why cops are so into gun control! So there's clearly a relationship between stories like that one, and gun ownership being easy in this country.
I started out by saying I wanted to buy a gun, not that I wanted to eliminate your right to have one - I don't know where you got that idea. Besides I have no power over your 2nd amendment rights so it's kind of pointless. But for instance if you're a recently released violent mental patient, and you want to buy an RPG and live next to me, I think I legitimately have an issue with that. Similarly, I do think that a hip-hop concert is a much safer place if there are NO guns, than if EVERYONE has a gun. There's a difference between gun control and wanting there to be fewer guns in general, and believing that noone should ever have any guns. If you have any advice as to what to buy for home security, I'd love to hear it!
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