Hipshot Hardtail on a Strat

[Dbyrdman]

Hey there,

New to these boards and currently designing my first Warmoth strat. VERY excited!

Quick question, I've see a lot of talk about people putting Hipshot hardtail bridges on Warmoth Strats, and was wondering if one of the Warmoth routes matched up with the Hipshot hardtail.

The bridge in question is the 41300 http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=329.

Thanks!

 

[Steve_Karl]

There's also been a bit of talk about the 2 - 1/4 wide string spread (spacing)
( the same as the "Vintage Strat bridge sold on warmoth.com )  ... putting the outer strings a bit to close to the edge of the neck.
Falling off the edge, occasionally, when playing is more likely with the Vintage which measures 2 - 1/4.
The narrow strat bridge has a 2 - 1/8" string spread.

 

[rapfohl09]

Quick question, I've see a lot of talk about people putting Hipshot hardtail bridges on Warmoth Strats, and was wondering if one of the Warmoth routes matched up with the Hipshot hardtail.
The bridge in question is the 41300 http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=329.

Warmoth offers what they call a "narrow-spaced Strat" mounting option, which basically just opens up the string holes a bit so you could mount either an American Standard spacing hardtail or the vintage spacing version. There's no extra charge for it. That'll take care of your Hipshot issue.

Then, you'll have to buy another Hipshot when you find out the 41300 is too wide. Vintage spacing is going to put the high/low E strings right on the edge of the neck, which is 2 3/16" wide. Unless you've got a very good reason to do it otherwise, you want the 2 1/4" (modern spaced) bridge.

edit: Incidentally...

• 2 1/4" = modern spaced = American Standard = narrow-spaced. All the same thing.
• 2 3/16" = vintage spaced = oddball = kukka. Rarely correct.
• All Warmoth necks with Strat heels are 2 3/16" wide at the heel, which is Fender standard. WIth a modern/American/narrow bridge, that gives you approximately 1/32" above/below the low/high E strings.

Wait, I'm confused. Why would the vintage spaced bridge that has a smaller spread put the strings on the edge of the fretboard, but the wider spaced modern not?

 

[Cagey]

Boy, is my face red! I'm gonna have to curl up in a corner and whimper as I wonder whether I'm too stupid to continue living.

Lemme think about this.

 

[NovasScootYa]

IMO...The Hipshot bridge looks OK but a USA Fender Vintage 57/62 Hardtail bridge is better on a Stratocaster and cheaper. A fellow on eBay sells them for $45.00 with free shipping, Fender #0037592000
Vintage Bridge spacing is actually 2 7/32" so spacing is rounded to 2 1/4" or 2 3/16" by most manufacturers. The HipShot string spread is 2.230" not 2.250 inches.
Your other option is narrow import spacing which is narrow import spacing for imports. Keep in mind that most all Strat players from Buddy Holley to John Mayer used USA bent saddle Vintage Spacing.
Most problems attributed to strings slipping off the board occur because someone drooped the fret ends during a fret level, the neck is misaligned, setup is off, player fault, etc.  Also, string spread on the nut should be 1 3/8 inches center E to E.
Speaking of a fret level...A file fret level on a new Warmoth neck is not necessary or recommended however the sharp edges of the fret ends need to be carefully rounded. There are other tricks but doctoring just the fret ends should be enough to get by. Shorter Warmoth Gibson fret ends do not need much attention whereas the higher frets do.
As for setup with a HipShot I haven't a clue what the results are. Specs show .091” plate thickness which means you'll probably use a lot of threads for setup. As for a Fender 57/62 bridge on an unfinished Warmoth Hardtail body with a Warmoth Pro Construction neck, set up with tall 6105 fret wire will use almost all E E D G saddle screw adjustment however the thickness of paint should elevate the .110" thick bridge plate a bit and place things close enough. Setup would be dead on with lower .036" Gibson wire.
And speaking of setup: Nut slots…Depress each string after the second fret and check clearance between the bottom of the string and first fret. Generally around .006” high E, .007” B and .008" - .009” G, D, A, E. After the nut is setup the string height should be measured from the top of the12th fret to bottom of string. High E string covers the 4/64 inch line, B is a hair over 4/64 inch and G, D, A, E covers 5/64 inch line. Good luck.

 

[AutoBat]

I like the 2 1/16" (52mm) import spacing found on MIM, American Special, & Highway 1s (but it's really the only spacing I've owned, what do I know?)

 

[stefan]

If it's relevant and helps at all, I am doing this with a hipshot hardtail bridge, but the .125/.175 version. Have strat body routed for narrow-spaced strat. The mounting screws are only a little off, as anticipated, not enough to matter. The string holes, however are - from top down it looks like this.

 

[Steve_Karl]

That looks like and easy fix.
I'd just widen the holes that are off at the top and maybe use the drinking straw trick if it was a problem restringing.

 

[stubhead]

How much do you have to drink? :help:

 

[stefan]

How much do you have to drink? :help:

You're going to have to explain that to me.

 

[Steve_Karl]

We're dribbling into the realm of nonsense.

 

[Cagey]

Problems restringing... drinking straw trick... sorta prompts the question. It's not real clean, but it's close enough for grins.

I think what Steve is actually referring to, though, is placing a drinking straw in the string hole to guide the string to the hole in the bridge for that string. Keeps you from hitting the bottom of the bridge, which prevents you from threading it through to the top. It's probably easier to just open the holes up a size or two on the top side of the body. Your string may still hit the bottom of the bridge when threading it from the back, but no more than it does with a vibrato bridge where you're incessantly hitting the bottom of the string saddle.

 

[Steve_Karl]

Cagey guessed it.

 

[Cagey]

This post looks like spam, and there are a number of them all over the board, all identical.

 

[swarfrat]

It is spam - there's a url for cell phones in the profile on the left. Clever

 

[Cagey]

I've sent a couple messages to the moderator(s), but apparently they only check in periodically. This board is just too well-behaved, so I'm guessing they spend a lot of time sleeping at the switch <grin>

 

[V-P]

Ok, I'm also interested in this bridge so I did some research.

At this page, http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/FretboardExtensions.aspx, third picture down, you can see that the fretboard height over the body is .375".
Add to that the height of the frets and just for the sake of it, lets take the 6100 frets at .112" and you get .487" above the body.

At this page, http://www.hipshotproducts.com/files/all/6stg_fixed_dims.pdf, you can see that the maximum string height over the body is .510".

The question then is if that is enough?

 

[Cagey]

Ok, I'm also interested in this bridge so I did some research.

At this page, http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/FretboardExtensions.aspx, third picture down, you can see that the fretboard height over the body is .375".
Add to that the height of the frets and just for the sake of it, lets take the 6100 frets at .112" and you get .487" above the body.

At this page, http://www.hipshotproducts.com/files/all/6stg_fixed_dims.pdf, you can see that the maximum string height over the body is .510".

The question then is if that is enough? 

It wasn't for me. It was close, but no cigar. The dimensions you point out are correct, and so only leave .023" for string clearance at the high/low E strings. That's pretty damn close, and the rest won't play at all due to the neck radius progressively eating away at that .023" as it rises from the flat of the body. I had to take .100" off the floor of the neck pocket of the Strat body I have the Hipshot 41105 bridge (.175" base) installed on. I could have also made or have made a shim to install under the bridge, but every interface adds cush to your string/body connection so I suspect you'd lose sustain/clarity. That's NFG and unacceptable. Or, at least that's my story, and I'm sticking to it <grin>

But, it is a nice bridge because it's so short, configurable, massive and made out of good materials (brass/SS), so it's worth it to wrestle the thing on on there if you have the wherewithal to do it.

Machining .100" off the neck floor isn't as difficult as it sounds. You need 4 things:

• A Fender neck pocket template such as this one...
• Some double-sided sticky tape like this...
• A router
• A 3/8" tall by 1/2" diameter flush trim/pattern follower bit like this...

Oh, and you have to be willing to risk wrecking your body if you let her get on top <grin>

The template is just acting as a platform for your router base so you maintain a fixed, level height above the neck pocket floor. StewMac's template isn't accurate enough to use as a template - it's slighly oversized, which is unacceptable. Attach that with the double-sided tape. Chuck that bit into your router, and measure your depth of cut very carefully. The bit's top bearing will bear against the side walls of the neck pocket, so you don't need the template to maintain the pocket's width and length dimensions. The only cutting you're doing is down. Drive the router around until the floor of the pocket is clear, and Poof! You're done. Heave a sigh of relief, and have a cigarette. Drink some beer. Pretend you knew what you were doing the whole time. Slap the ol' lady's buns, and tell her what a guitar-building stud hoss you are <grin>

 

[V-P]

Too bad.... Me routing a neck pocket? I don't think so...  :sad1:

I was hoping that someone would tell me I'm an idiot who sucks at maths.

I really don't wanna give this up so easily. Other people have done it without the routing part!

 

[Cagey]

Other people have done it without the routing part!

You would think so. I thought so, too. Try and find one. I suspect those bridges were designed for a different guitar, although I don't know which one. Gibson typically uses TOMs w/ stop tailpieces on everything, which aren't exactly short. Who else is big enough to present an aftermarket of sufficient size to justify designing a bridge for?