Floyd rose tremolo without...

[Bruno]

It's *unique* but... ???
Mark Knopfler on his  famous Pensa-Suhr guitar (no "Pensa MK," no "Suhr", but "pensa-suhr") had an original floyd roses no rec. but locked (with floyd nut).
**Why** remains a big mystery for me, because he has no more used a floyd...

 

[Cagey]

Maybe he just liked the guitar's feel and tone, and the Floyd was simply along for the ride.

Truth be told, all my guitars with vibrato bridges are that way. I don't use them that much. I'd just rather have them and not need them than need them and not have them, because you never know when the spirit will move you or a song requires it. But, I don't want them in my way and I don't want them to cause me any grief.

 

[stubhead]

There was a November 2008 Guitar Player article about Neal Schon, who has some Gibson Les Pauls with Floyds. The necks have been set at a lower angle so the bridge doesn't sit up so high - he only whammies down, they don't float. But, he says it's not so much for the whammy possibilities as it is that the guitar stays in tune longer. Which sorta begs the question -

who's doing Neal Schon's nuts?...

... that it won't stay tune unlocked, I of course mean - get yer mind outta the gutter, already. :binkybaby:

But then, it is on new Les Pauls, with their wobbly "mahogany" necks and obsolete, crooked string pulls. Poor Neal's in the same boat as Steve Lukather - he though he could sneak off from being cutting edge/fusion/Guitar World shreddy coverboy/creamcropped LA guitar hero, and make a few million with Journey playing pimply high school prom ballads, then sneak back to studmuffins dragon slayer - but alas, his career is permanently defined as "that guy from Journey."  :sad1:

 

[Badside]

I notice one detail that is often missed: there's a reason we call them "double-locking", the other part of the genius is the locking AT THE BRIDGE, something Strat type tremolos don't do: the ball end can move a bit and not come back to the exact same position.

That's why the "Speedloader", which don't lock at the bridge, are known to be less stable than the regular double-locking design.

I believe a proper nut and the right tuners will offer 99% of the performance of a locking nut without the hassle, but a non-locking bridge will never be as stable under heavy use.

Carvin offers guitars with FR bridge and non-locking nut, and it's what my San Dimas type Strat will receive too.

 

[Cagey]

I notice one detail that is often missed: there's a reason we call them "double-locking", the other part of the genius is the locking AT THE BRIDGE, something Strat type tremolos don't do: the ball end can move a bit and not come back to the exact same position.

I seriously doubt the ball ends are moving around on a typical Strat bridge, even the old crummy ones. But, the entire length of the string changes when you wank on the vibrato, so the saddles provide a nice hang-up point due to friction the same way the nut does, especially if you use those old stamped/roll-formed things from ancient times. The string length behind the saddle stretches/relaxes along with the rest of the string, and may or may not relieve depending on the condition/construction of your saddles. The obvious solution is to put rollers at the contact points, or use a super-slippery material to carve/cast the saddles. Of course, that adds cost so you don't often see it on OEM gear, but those parts are available in the aftermarket.

That said, I agree that a proper nut and locking tuners are as good as a locking nut. Thing is, those items weren't really available when Floyd came up with his vibrato design, so he just nipped the whole slippage/hang-up thing in the bud by locking the little rascals down before they could get into trouble.

These days, the whole Floyd Rose thing is more a curiosity than anything else, unless you can find a practical/musical reason to relax your strings until they fall off the neck and/or stick to your pickups. Otherwise, they're just too complicated and expensive and require too much non-reversible damage to a guitar to justify their use. Wilkinson, Schaller and others make much better solutions that work extremely well for half the price and none of the neck damage or overly-ambitious body routing.

 

[Orpheo]

cagey, a floyd can go down superlow, but who says you HAVE to do that? I don't! I just whobble and dive a bit, but not super-deep. the floyd is just a bit more stable and sounds better than the wilkinson or a hipshot. so.. strangely, thats why i wnt a floyd. weird hu?


(also, the sustain is a whole lot better than on my non-floyd but trem'd les pauls).

 

[keeper006]

Thing is, if you don't have a locking nut, you don't need a Floyd, whose main feature is the micro-tuners. They have no purpose without the locked nut that prevents your main tuners from working. So, if you want a reliable, repeatable, wide-range vibrato bridge, you want a Wilkinson.

+1

 

[keeper006]

I didn't see that anyone had mentioned this, but I have read that the LSR roller nuts work great with trems. I'm actually wondering about the opposite. I have a VIP with a Gotoh 510 fixed bridge that I was considering putting a neck on that has a floyd locking nut. I obviously wouldn't lock it down without fine tuners, but was wondering how that would affect tone. But for you you I agree that the new nuts make it a problem of the past.

 

[DangerousR6]

I didn't see that anyone had mentioned this, but I have read that the LSR roller nuts work great with trems. I'm actually wondering about the opposite. I have a VIP with a Gotoh 510 fixed bridge that I was considering putting a neck on that has a floyd locking nut. I obviously wouldn't lock it down without fine tuners, but was wondering how that would affect tone. But for you you I agree that the new nuts make it a problem of the past.

If you did that you could use the Schaller 456 bridge. It has fine tuners and the same post span as the 510... :icon_biggrin:

 

[keeper006]

Great minds think alike- I was actually looking at that yesterday but didn't think it would work because the Warmoth bridge route page shows them being off by a mm and the posts are different diameters.

 

[DangerousR6]

Great minds think alike- I was actually looking at that yesterday but didn't think it would work because the Warmoth bridge route page shows them being off by a mm and the posts are different diameters.

LOL, they're only off by .010" which could be a big difference or a little one depending on the posts. However the posts can be changed out.... :icon_biggrin:

 

[DangerousR6]

My bad, there's an .018" difference, still I think it's doable... :dontknow:

 

[keeper006]

My bad, there's an .018" difference, still I think it's doable... :dontknow:

I'm gonna have to call them about some special routing for my brother's SG body, I will have to remember to ask them about that...

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

My main beef with the 456 is those long screws protruding out the back.  I wish they just locked onto the bridge & were done with it.

 

[DangerousR6]

My main beef with the 456 is those long screws protruding out the back.  I wish they just locked onto the bridge & were done with it.

You can always get shorter screws, or this... :dontknow:

 

[DangerousR6]

I'd put a 456 on my aluminum strat if it wasn't set up for a trem already... :laughing7:

 

[keeper006]

My bad, there's an .018" difference, still I think it's doable... :dontknow:

Yeah, you got me all worked up about it, so I called them today- NOT doable. Seemed like a good idea though. I just won't be locking the nut.

 

[DangerousR6]

My bad, there's an .018" difference, still I think it's doable... :dontknow:

Yeah, you got me all worked up about it, so I called them today- NOT doable. Seemed like a good idea though. I just won't be locking the nut.

Well, it's doable, it's just a matter ingenuity. With only a difference of .018", it would just be a matter of a little altercation to the posts. But it is what it is I guess... :dontknow:

 

[Cagey]

If only he had a metal lathe...

 

[DangerousR6]

If only he had a metal lathe...

:doh: