Coronavirus Discussion

[Verne Bunsen]

Well, after two weeks in solitary confinement followed by four weeks on location at my work site, I am finally heading home. And what pops into my inbox while I’m at the airport? Why, a shipping notification for the Birdseye/Birdseye neck for my Candy Turquoise Jazzmaster build! 2020 is looking up!

 

[rgand]

Cool! Pics when you can. Welcome home.

 

[Verne Bunsen]

Indubitably! And thanks! Not sure yet if I’ll have to do the two week quarantine again the next time I head up, crossing all my fingers and toes for the requirement to be lifted...

 

[PhilHill]

Indubitably! And thanks! Not sure yet if I’ll have to do the two week quarantine again the next time I head up, crossing all my fingers and toes for the requirement to be lifted...

What with all this time you have for self reflection and meditation you should be the most well adjusted person around at the end of this.  :icon_thumright:

. Vastly unlike me. :tard:

 

[Verne Bunsen]

What with all this time you have for self reflection and meditation you should be the most well adjusted person around at the end of this.  :icon_thumright:

. Vastly unlike me. :tard:

:laughing7:

 

[DangerousR6]

Don't know what all this lockdown noise is about, everybody in my town going about daily lives. Going to work everyday, only difference was restaurants were to go only, and most of them are starting to open back up. :icon_scratch:

 

[Verne Bunsen]

Don't know what all this lockdown noise is about, everybody in my town going about daily lives. Going to work everyday, only difference was restaurants were to go only, and most of them are starting to open back up. :icon_scratch:

That’s good to hear. Here is hoping that the sanity builds momentum as quickly as the madness!

 

[stratamania]

Don't know what all this lockdown noise is about, everybody in my town going about daily lives. Going to work everyday, only difference was restaurants were to go only, and most of them are starting to open back up. :icon_scratch:

This is what it is about

At the time of writing...

Confirmed cases Worldwide
4,233,504
Recovered
1,481,314
Deaths
289,932

US
Confirmed
1,399,905
Recovered
234,607
Deaths
83,019

The actual figures are probably in reality higher. Without the measures taken over the last several weeks perhaps where you are would be seeing a bigger impact.

https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

Its all very well to talk about getting back to normal, but the reality is until there is an actual cure or means of prevention, relaxation of measures, especially in the US when you have not even passed the peak will mean you are headed for a new peak.

Even in South Korea where they were extremely successful in containing and reducing the numbers, when they have gone back to "normal" there is an outbreak of at least 16 people that has occurred in a nightclub, probably from one person who had no symptoms.

Further countries that have "reopened" early have had increases and are introducing restrictions again.

 

[Orpheo]

What so, so many people tend to forget: the lockdown is not *just* about saving lives. It's about not overwhelming the capacities of the hospitals, because even if there are many more people infected with virtually no symptoms, they can spread the virus which will lead to more people getting it and if you have more people getting the virus, you also get more people needing help from hospitals. And they just can't cope with that influx.

It's a balancing act between trying to save the economy and saving lives. It's not about you; it's about the rest. And for some reason, that's a very bitter pill for a lot of people to swallow.

 

[Verne Bunsen]

It’s about not overwhelming the medical system, meanwhile hospitals are going out of business!

The whole “it’s not about you, it’s about everyone else” moral high horse is interesting to me, because I see the people shouting it completely neglecting the hardship that is being inflicted on others by the response to this thing. As is often the case with moral dilemmas, neither choice is without a negative aspect. It is naive to think otherwise.

It’s easy to say things like “without the measures taken over the last several weeks perhaps where you are would be seeing a bigger impact”, but it’s pretty tough to actually verify it. I can just as easily say that if we had a more moderate response we could have navigated this thing without wrecking the global machine in the process. Pretty speculative.

With the fatality rate being inflated by co-morbidities, I don’t put much stock in the published numbers. Everyone who dies that has it is marked down as a Covid death, regardless of other variables.

As far as seeing new “peaks” as things start back up, that’s going to be the case no matter how long we wait. It isn’t going to disappear completely while we hide from it. People still die of Plague every year, imagine if they had decided everyone needed to hide in their bedroom until no more cases of that were seen.

We live in a world with hazards and it has never yet been “safe” to be alive. Watching everything fall apart because there is risk involved in putting it back together isn’t the sort of thing that our civilization was built on. I’m just one voice, but I believe firmly that it is time to fire this world back up. People that want to stay in quarantine are certainly free to do so on whatever timetable they see fit, but for the rest this is just one more hazard in a world that has been full of them since the beginning.

Apologies in advance if my position offends, I am aware that it is not a popular one, haha!

 

[mayfly]

I've enjoyed our little lockdown here in Ontario.  The streets are a LOT quieter and you run into your neighbours all the time when out for walks or hanging out on the porch.  Home school has been a PITA, but I think the kids are learning more.  We can still get driveby takeout from top-end restaurants, the liquor store is well stocked, and Lee Valley is offering FREE SHIPPING with no minimums!!

I'm in the process of starting a new business, but even that is not hampered too much.  Life goes on.

 

[Verne Bunsen]

One more check mark in the “2020 is looking up” column: Beechers is open at Seattle airport! I love a tub of their “Worlds Best Mac & Cheese” for breakfast on the way home.

 

[stratamania]

It’s about not overwhelming the medical system, meanwhile hospitals are going out of business!

The whole “it’s not about you, it’s about everyone else” moral high horse is interesting to me, because I see the people shouting it completely neglecting the hardship that is being inflicted on others by the response to this thing. As is often the case with moral dilemmas, neither choice is without a negative aspect. It is naive to think otherwise.

In terms of hospitals going out of business outside of the US where Orpheo and myself are a hospital is not a business it is part of a healthcare system.

Again in terms of morals, businesses and people outside of the US are being supported very well in some cases so it is not a case of a moral high horse.

The economy versus people's lives is not a moral dilemma it is a false dichotomy and can be solved by a proper coordinated global response.

It’s easy to say things like “without the measures taken over the last several weeks perhaps where you are would be seeing a bigger impact”, but it’s pretty tough to actually verify it. I can just as easily say that if we had a more moderate response we could have navigated this thing without wrecking the global machine in the process. Pretty speculative.

Actually it is not. It is easy to compare the actual figures in countries who took differing measures and achieved different results. Compare the response of New Zealand to the US for example.

With the fatality rate being inflated by co-morbidities, I don’t put much stock in the published numbers. Everyone who dies that has it is marked down as a Covid death, regardless of other variables.

It is well recognised that actual Covid deaths and infections are under reported in many cases. More deaths such as those caused by heart disease have occurred due to people not going to hospital.

As far as seeing new “peaks” as things start back up, that’s going to be the case no matter how long we wait. It isn’t going to disappear completely while we hide from it. People still die of Plague every year, imagine if they had decided everyone needed to hide in their bedroom until no more cases of that were seen.

So starting back up without adequate protection, PPE, safe methods of working until a vaccine and cure can be found seems a little fatalistic.

Which Plaque is that? The Black Death was centuries ago. Regardless just to say lets get on with it because people die of other things again is a bit fatalistic.

We live in a world with hazards and it has never yet been “safe” to be alive. Watching everything fall apart because there is risk involved in putting it back together isn’t the sort of thing that our civilization was built on. I’m just one voice, but I believe firmly that it is time to fire this world back up. People that want to stay in quarantine are certainly free to do so on whatever timetable they see fit, but for the rest this is just one more hazard in a world that has been full of them since the beginning.

Apologies in advance if my position offends, I am aware that it is not a popular one, haha!

And a civilisation was not built by those crossing the road blindfolded, or putting themselves in harms way deliberately, for the sake of a global machine, which is broken and needs fixing in any case.

For the rest we will have to agree to disagree. As the rest strays into politics...though I think some of your views are somewhat partisan in any case.

I wish you and yours well and I sincerely hope you or your loved ones are not affected badly by this pandemic.

 

[Seamas]

Which Plaque is that? The Black Death was centuries ago. Regardless just to say lets get on with it because people die of other things again is a bit fatalistic.

Plus the Black Death was caused by bacteria rather than virus.
Easily mitigated by proper sanitation (where it pops up are in places with very substandard sanitation).
Also easily remedied with antibiotics.


Probably with this current pandemic it is best to pay careful attention to what the actual experts in the field are saying -and also to acquaint oneself with good scientific skepticism when people start touting random studies or some lone doctor's anecdotal accounts of a miracle cure.
No one loves a pandemic more than a snake oil salesman.

 

[Verne Bunsen]

Clearly we hold different perspectives. I agree with you on this: it is a false dichotomy. I don’t believe that wanting to piece our world back together means callously sacrificing lives. I simply believe we can cater to the health needs without such devastating measures. You mention starting up without adequate protection, PPE, safe work practices, but I never suggested any such thing. We’ve learned to exist and operate in the presence innumerable hazards in this world, this is another one. We may need to do things different, and so we are, but we can still do things. And for what it is worth, I am not a partisan. I’m a registered independent in my country and have cast my vote for members of both of our dominant parties, and some of the less dominant ones. My leanings are toward individual liberty, personal accountability, and small government. The letters after the names of politicians and policies are of little importance to me, I simply concern myself with what they represent.

I appreciate your well wishes and likewise hope that you and yours, and indeed everybody in our little internet community here, are faring well!

 

[Hendrix]

Hong Kong people’s can be seen over reacting in eye of other country, and we “over done “ a lot more than government “ask for “ .

That purely benefit-driven economic animal . 2003 SARS era is deepest wound in Hong Kong people’s heart , not only because it takes few hundred lives directly , most profound lesson is it cost Home price drop 70% from pecks in 1997 , then go up around 600% up to now .
A lot more people dead not by  SARS Coronavirus in 2003 , but suicide for negative equity on home mortgage , that what can happened to economic if government not deal with it right.

So when would this be end ? From Hongkong SARS timeline experience , it takes about half years, peaks case around 2 months, that is a city more densely than NY , so lest dense population city may lasting shorter if social distancing being enforce.

Dead rates in SARS is over 17% , although “only” few hundred dead , but sadly more people suicide in April and May as can’t see hope when lost jobs and home . Curve began to fattening in May , That is the economic down fall kill more people, so it not easy balance for close biz to save more people or back to normal earlier to save economic .

Also as people in HK learn the lesson hard way in 2003 , Now people consciously keeping safely habit like wear mask and washed hand etc, basically most company in HK still running now (unless there is no client) , only public entertainment and closed contact service biz are order to closed .

Restaurant in HK still open in some grimace way

BTW , if you have spare money, looking back in HK history, that no better time for investment than now .

we have learned it very sad way , Not lock down would not save the economy, because as the dead rates go up when hospitals flooded and everyone lost of hope  , people will become terrifying to go out , and kill the economy eventually without lock down .

and the lost of hope is much difficult to save then short term pain on economic .  suicide on lost of hope kill more people than coronavirus .

and because of people in 2003 SARS era terrifying to go out then get coronavirus cure in June, lesson learned that social distancing and wearing mask work .

and from from the last video I post , you can see we don't need to lock down this time in our city.

 

[stratamania]

Thanks for clarifying your position and best wishes VB.

A managed carefully controlled approach is a valid one. Unfortunately the approaches are somewhat lacking at the moment. That is my real concern.

 

[ByteFrenzy]

By the way, the plague - the same one that decimated the Mediterranean in Roman times and all of Europe in Medieval times - is actually still very much a thing today. It's not massive death waves sweeping accross a country, but the disease is hiding in animals and occasionally jumps to a human. It's usualy not lethal but even in our days of antibiotics it's still not an enjoyable experience. I read about a case not too long ago where a hiker had the bad fortune of making camp close to a dead squirrel, and infected fleas jumped ship from the dead squirrel to the not dead hiker. IIRC, he survived but minus a couple of limbs.

 

[DangerousR6]

 

[swarfrat]

The bandanna isn't useless. It placates the nitwits who require them in their district or place of business. And at least it's better than people wearing masks with exhale valves.