Coronavirus Discussion

[swarfrat]

I'd say whenever it's ok to say one viewpoint but not the other then it has become political. But musician forums have a loooooooooong history of such. Even though this one is the least political music related forum I've been on, I'd like it to stay that way.

 

[War_in_D]

It comes down to one question, do you err on the side of safety or do you ignore it and whoever dies, dies ?.......... :dontknow:

Respectfully, this is where I have a problem with the whole "You don't wear a mask to protect yourself, you wear it to protect others" (I.E. err on the side of safety) argument because it attempts to take away an individuals right to make a personal choice.  You're damned if you do, because then you're wearing a mask you don't want to wear..  and damned if you don't, because then you're possibly seen as heartless with no regard for human life.  So, for those that fall on the side of personal freedom and the right to choose if they want to wear a mask or not, there is no correct answer for them.  Because I'm a team player, I wear a mask when I go out.  Do I think it makes a difference, not really.. but if people feel safer for me wearing it then so be it and for those people.. You're welcome.

As VB stated and I agree 110% with.. I'm not asking anyone to wear a mask for my sake.

   

 

[PhilHill]

I am all for personal freedom. It is important. However we live as a society, therefore certain personal freedoms cannot be allowed in the interest of everyone's  well being. No one should be allowed to engage in personal habits or likes that are dangerous in their disregard for the well being of others. Like the laws against drinking and driving, or smoking while you work at an ammo factory. You shouldn't drive at high speeds on public roads in suburban areas. Etc.
The authorities who run things in our country have to balance personal freedom against public safety. Personal freedom does not outrank public safety. There are not alot of known facts regarding the virus, therefore sometimes we have to use whatever methods the experts tell us would be most likely to help. This is a contagious disease that has the ability to kill. If folks don't like the rules and requirements that are being used, maybe they should come up with an effective alternative instead of just condemning the efforts of those that are trying to help.
Yes, the current rules are inconvenient and disruptive to our lives. but I'm kinda thinking that people and their loved ones dying is even more disruptive to their lives when the cause was someone valuing their personal freedom higher than they value their neighbor's safety...............Just my two cents.

 

[TBurst Std]

Guys. You’re dangerously close to politics.

In US terms, what one person what consider sedition is what someone else would view as a Convention of States and called for under article V of the US Constitution.

On a global level, I do not to wish to see deaths at any level. Yet last year the world experienced 72 million deaths that were nearly 100% avoidable. There’s no out cry on that.
I can say that as a fact. Whether I accept the law or disagree with it is political.

Mods please lock this thread.

 

[PhilHill]

Perhaps to avoid trouble in the future, we should define exactly what constitutes "politics".  :icon_thumright:

 

[War_in_D]

I am all for personal freedom. It is important. However we live as a society, therefore certain personal freedoms cannot be allowed in the interest of everyone's  well being. No one should be allowed to engage in personal habits or likes that are dangerous in their disregard for the well being of others. Like the laws against drinking and driving, or smoking while you work at an ammo factory. You shouldn't drive at high speeds on public roads in suburban areas. Etc.
The authorities who run things in our country have to balance personal freedom against public safety. Personal freedom does not outrank public safety. There are not alot of known facts regarding the virus, therefore sometimes we have to use whatever methods the experts tell us would be most likely to help. This is a contagious disease that has the ability to kill. If folks don't like the rules and requirements that are being used, maybe they should come up with an effective alternative instead of just condemning the efforts of those that are trying to help.
Yes, the current rules are inconvenient and disruptive to our lives. but I'm kinda thinking that people and their loved ones dying is even more disruptive to their lives when the cause was someone valuing their personal freedom higher than they value their neighbor's safety...............Just my two cents.

I respect your opinion.  However, I would ask if these experts are the same ones that told us to wear masks, then told us to not wear them.. and then came back around and told us to wear them again?  First we were told, shut down everything for two weeks and it goes away.  Seemed reasonable, and most people happily agreed to do it.  Then we're told, just a bit longer to "flatten the curve".. and people did it..  Then we were told that the virus doesn't survive in heat, so by the end of summer everything will be back to normal but yet here we are, still talking about it in December.  In the meantime, people's livelihoods have been destroyed.. countless businesses have been lost and yes, many lives have been lost as well..  To the virus, but also to things like suicide caused by mental stress, anxiety and substance abuse brought on by people being isolated.  The cure can't be worse than the cause.  So, forgive me if I don't have much faith in the "experts" at this point.  I agree with you that Covid is a contagious virus that has the ability to kill.  So does the flu, but widespread mask mandates were never a thing with the flu, or any of the other pandemics that have rolled thru the US in the last 40 years.  So, why now?

PhilHill, I have the utmost respect for you and your opinions as I do with everyone else's opinions expressed in this thread.  I hope that none of what I have said has come across as combative, which can be easily perceive when we only use a typed word to try to convey a point.  We all have the right to agree to disagree as it were and I will stand here and defend a person's right to express their opinion as vehemently as I would my own...  Even if I don't agree with what they are saying.  This will be my last post in this thread.  As I stated before, people's opinions are very polarized on this subject and it's not likely that any minds will be changed either way. So, I'm going back to our common ground of guitars and the building thereof..  Much love to all of you, and please stay safe in whatever form that means to you.   

 

[PhilHill]

I am all for personal freedom. It is important. However we live as a society, therefore certain personal freedoms cannot be allowed in the interest of everyone's  well being. No one should be allowed to engage in personal habits or likes that are dangerous in their disregard for the well being of others. Like the laws against drinking and driving, or smoking while you work at an ammo factory. You shouldn't drive at high speeds on public roads in suburban areas. Etc.
The authorities who run things in our country have to balance personal freedom against public safety. Personal freedom does not outrank public safety. There are not alot of known facts regarding the virus, therefore sometimes we have to use whatever methods the experts tell us would be most likely to help. This is a contagious disease that has the ability to kill. If folks don't like the rules and requirements that are being used, maybe they should come up with an effective alternative instead of just condemning the efforts of those that are trying to help.
Yes, the current rules are inconvenient and disruptive to our lives. but I'm kinda thinking that people and their loved ones dying is even more disruptive to their lives when the cause was someone valuing their personal freedom higher than they value their neighbor's safety...............Just my two cents.

I respect your opinion.  However, I would ask if these experts are the same ones that told us to wear masks, then told us to not wear them.. and then came back around and told us to wear them again?  First we were told, shut down everything for two weeks and it goes away.  Seemed reasonable, and most people happily agreed to do it.  Then we're told, just a bit longer to "flatten the curve".. and people did it..  Then we were told that the virus doesn't survive in heat, so by the end of summer everything will be back to normal but yet here we are, still talking about it in December.  In the meantime, people's livelihoods have been destroyed.. countless businesses have been lost and yes, many lives have been lost as well..  To the virus, but also to things like suicide caused by mental stress, anxiety and substance abuse brought on by people being isolated.  The cure can't be worse than the cause.  So, forgive me if I don't have much faith in the "experts" at this point.  I agree with you that Covid is a contagious virus that has the ability to kill.  So does the flu, but widespread mask mandates were never a thing with the flu, or any of the other pandemics that have rolled thru the US in the last 40 years.  So, why now?

PhilHill, I have the utmost respect for you and your opinions as I do with everyone else's opinions expressed in this thread.  I hope that none of what I have said has come across as combative, which can be easily perceive when we only use a typed word to try to convey a point.  We all have the right to agree to disagree as it were and I will stand here and defend a person's right to express their opinion as vehemently as I would my own...  Even if I don't agree with what they are saying.  This will be my last post in this thread.  As I stated before, people's opinions are very polarized on this subject and it's not likely that any minds will be changed either way. So, I'm going back to our common ground of guitars and the building thereof..  Much love to all of you, and please stay safe in whatever form that means to you.   

I take no offense over your opinions. Everyone gets to have their own and all are valid in certain ways, so don't worry there. I too wish to obey Forum rules. Discussion of the virus was allowed and has progressed. The rules established to try to prevent further spread are one aspect of the virus and are going to end up being discussed, kinda hard not to. So, like a hiker who wishes to stay in their own country, I'd like to know where the border lies.... :icon_thumright:

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

My faith compels me to treat others as more valuable than myself, so as I don’t like the whole mask idea for myself, I still wear one when out just to make others feel safe who may be within the demographic of risk.  In a few months, I will be 55 years old, so I am entering into that demographic sooner than later as well.

Ultimately, I will rejoice when a vaccine is available, and that eventually for regular citizens after the prioritization protocols have been serviced.

 

[aarontunes]

I have neither the time nor the desire to attempt to define "politics" in a way that will make everyone happy.

Everyone has had a chance to voice their opinion.


I'm locking the thread.