Burnishing Raw Necks

[Cagey]

And I'll throw in the cheapskate shop tip 'o' the day here: "Worn-out" sandpaper, especially of the aluminum oxide (light brown) woody paper, is actually not worn-out - it's just morphed to a finer grit. So if you're deep into yer sanding-zen-exercise mode, and you don't want to blow it with a trip to the hardware store, you could go, like, 50 -> 80 ->150 ->320-> 400 instead of 60-> 100-> 220 ->600 etc. and you'll get to the same place eventually.

I don't think the grit gets finer; you just lose the cutting edges on the particles so you don't cut as aggressively. Slows you down, is all. It would probably be pretty disappointing to use a well-worn piece of 400 as a piece of 600; you'd wreck what you've done so far.

The two biggest horrors not often mentioned are:

Getting gray silicon shrapnel into some over-sanded raw wood or, even dumber - getting anything at all into still-soft lacquer, be it nitro, acrylic, Tru-Oil or whatever. The gray stuff is "metal" sanding but it's also used in wet-sanding a finish... if you have wood with blotches of raw wood, umm, back up. Way back.

We're talking about sanding raw necks to smooth them out in lieu of a finish, not prepping them for finish. If you're prepping for a finish, you would not want to go through the procedures lined out here. A finish would likely not stick well to a piece of wood that's been burnished to 2000 grit. In fact, the guys on the turning forums warn you against that very thing.

 

[elgravos]

Hi Guys,

Late to this party but definitely interested by the subject matter.

I’ve just put in an order for a wenge neck and want to explore this option.  I was wondering though whether going all the way to 2000 grit made sense in the case of wenge given that it’s such a coarse / open grained wood in the first place.

I saw in the early comments that Updown had sanded wenge down to 800 but I haven’t spotted anyone else on the thread mentioning that they have sanded wenge all the way through 2000. 

Wanted to check if anyone had taken this one further on wenge and if the outcome was as good as with the other wood species?

Another dumb question seeing as I am entirely lacking in sanding technique: using the 3M Flexible Polishing Papers that Cagey recommends, would you still use some kind of padding under the paper (foam / sponge or otherwise) to protect from uneven finger pressure?  Any tips appreciated on this front.

Cheers.

 

[Cagey]

I've done it to a couple Wenge necks, and while it's an improvement, it's not as dramatic as it is with some woods. Wenge is already remarkably slick, and as you've pointed out, it's a pretty wide-open grain, so the appearance/feel doesn't change greatly. I'd still do it, as it does improve it and costs very little to do other than time, but it's not like doing Canary, Pau Ferro, Bloodwood, etc.

As for padding the paper, I don't do it. My hand is good enough padding. It's not a flat surface, and the grades of paper used are pretty fine, so you don't have to worry about sanding out divots or waves in the surface like you would if you were grinding away with some 220 or 320.

 

[elgravos]

Great, really appreciate the feedback on both points.  Will go for it as you suggest.  What's a little time between friends.

 

[elgravos]

One more question and then I'll let this one go, promise: do you tape up the fretboard before sanding or is it unnecessary given the fine grit of the sandpaper used?

Thanks.

 

[Cagey]

I don't. Most of the time, unless the frets have been previously dressed and polished, what ends up happening to them is a beneficial side effect.

 

[elgravos]

Thanks, insightful as always.

 

[Cagey]

Speaking of grinding/sanding/polishing frets and their ends, you may want to review this thread.

 

[DustyCat]

I think this thread is starting to sink in.

First time raw neck owner (Padouk with Canary board) SRV back contour.

So you are saying use multiple grades of sandpaper, getting finer each time?
Seems like a lot of sawdust (i.e. toothpick neck)  :sad:

Still, for smoothness and EXP I would like to try.  :toothy10:
Is it possible to contour the sandpaper exactly to the contours of your fretting hand to replicate the relief from a moulding of your hand with the sandpaper?  :dontknow:

Does that make sense? Im not sure exactly I know what Im talking about but the principle seems sound

[EDIT] Why have SRV back contour when I can have DustyCat fretting hand back contour? :cool01:

 

[DustyCat]

sorry for the spam, but I think now I want to ALWAYS order bigger than I need!
Sand down to the exact contour of my fretting hand!  ccasion14:

 

[Cagey]

Yes, you gradually increase the grits of the papers as you go. The finer they get, the longer you have to work with them. It usually takes me about an hour, hour and a half to do a neck.

The papers are fine enough that very little wood is removed. You barely even generate any sawdust. Trying to reprofile with papers of those grits would take you years. Usually, reprofiling is done with a spokeshave, then sanded from there.

 

[stubhead]

I find it odd that this site, where SO MUCH of the discussion had to do with surfacing and contouring wood, just never, ever brings in the mainstays of real woodworker's tools: spokeshaves. planes, chisels, scrapers, blades of all sorts.... Sandpaper used to be only used for finishing stages, and it was an easy gauge of a carpenter's talent how smooth (and good-FITTING) he could get wood using the cutting and scraping blades first. Of course, sandpaper used to be (relatively) far more expensive because it wasn't very good or long-lasting, the newer glues and "sands" have changed it's relative worth. And the application of POWER makes sanding better at turning word into dust instead of cute little shaven curls... It's still messy, blurry, inefficient and just not FUN like cutting wood by hand. And the incidence of woodworker's lung disease skyrocketed with the introduction of power sanding, about 1/5 off all professionals now check out of work with lung-related disabilities. And 2/5 more spend their last 20 years coughing and spitting a lot*.

I have one of these:
https://www.lmii.com/products/tools-services/planes/palm-plane-%E2%80%93-flat-soled
A fine little thing for making wood surfaces really flat. I also have a completely unsharpened extra blade, with a square rather than beveled edge, that can be stuck in there to scrape. And the sharp blade when OUT of the plane is perfect for taking the finish out from underneath flatmount bridges, which I guess everybody knows to do? Bridges need to screw to wood, not through layers of nitro, plastic, sealers etc. (Neck pockets too, of course, goes unspoken).

There are official scrapers galore, but my main one is a 3/4"x6" stainless steel "shop rule" that I don't like too well because it doesn't "zero" right at the end, rather a few hundredths of mm's in. So I put it in the vise and square the edge with a file then bang a real edge on it with a heavy chef's sharpening steel, boy will it scrape!

That sharpening steel is another thing I don't see people use - did you know that the thinner X-Acto blades can be resharpened almost indefinitely with just a steel? You may say "Haw Haw! I can change blades in a few seconds!" Well Haw haw, by the time you even find your blades and get one out I will be back cutting with a sharper blade than that! Haw haw. Not too surprising (to me), the more exclusive a luthier is, the longer wait (and the plus-$10,000 prices!), the more it seems they're real, trained, slicey woodworkers making love to wood and not just sander-tool-addled dust-to-dust power-crazed wood-raping deaf blind 'n' crazy nascent emphysemiacs.

*(I may have made that last part up for drama)

 

[Cagey]

I suspect the reason you don't hear more about woodworking here is that most of the wood that's used is pre-shaped and often pre-finished before we get it. Only the necks and bodies are made of it, and they generally come from Warmoth. Hell, a lot of the members here don't even own a drill press. If this was a furniture maker's forum, then you'd probably see a lot more torture going on.

 

[stubhead]

What are you doing up at 4:30 in the morning? Are you insane?

I, of course, have a legit excuse - fudging' dead got me again - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKDMssIDuKg

 

[Cagey]

What are you doing up at 4:30 in the morning? Are you insane?

Yes, but that's beside the point.

I don't have a regular sleeping schedule. I take a couple/few naps a day and call it good.

 

[DustyCat]

[EDIT] OOPS! Sorry went back and starting rereading this thread and found my answer on the first page ("boiled linseed oil")

Hey do you guys think the same process could be applied to an already finished neck (effectively, I mean)? I mean really whats the difference after you sand down the finish.

Here's the kicker....maple neck, but its finished and I've had it for several years (lotta sweat) since I believe.

I also have a canary with a thin satin nitro dusting but I read here that it can go raw....

 

[Cagey]

Maple generally needs a hard finish, although Tonar has been getting away with some other finishes on his Maple parts. He talks about it back up the this thread somewhere.

Canary doesn't need a finish but will take one, so you can go any way you'd like with that.

What some guys do with finished necks is just take some 0000 steel wool (or preferably, the 3M equivalent) and buff the neck up with that. Gets you that satin finish.

 

[DustyCat]

Good Work You Guys!
:guitarplayer2:

 

[stubhead]

I'm actually doing just about that these days. I put thin, thin Tru-oil on them (around 3 coats in 3 hours, de-fur, then a few more) and wait at least a month. But then, I hit it with steel wool, and if it starts to let off some more curing smell STOP a while till that stops - then maybe get to around the 5000 grit paper? No smoother - then just beeswax, orange oil to maintain. There's still tru-oil in whatever pores there were, I can't even tell if I'm at raw wood once the stuff's hard. Honest to jeebers, very very very very few of these guitars (or maybe a few less) are ever going to get climate -stressed enough to possibly matter. TRY to warp a Warmoth neck with the double rod, hmm. How? :icon_scratch:

 

[keeper006]

For those still looking for these finer grits, other common places to get them are Autozone, O'Reilley's, and Hobby Lobby. They all carry up to 3k-4k