Bridge of Dooooooom....

[Cagey]

Y'know, when I said "Bridge of Doom", I really wasn't thinking of a vibrato. I was thinking hardtail. Vibrato's been done to death, and Wilkinson/Schaller have both pretty much nailed it. They're simple, effective, repeatable, easily maintained, don't fight back, and aren't expensive. Some might argue the Floyd has a wider range, but that's more about the body routing than the bridge. Other than that, the Floyd has no advantage and several disadvantages.

A vibrato bridge that maintains tuning throughout its range would be desirable, but that's already been done, too, and it's wickedly expensive due to its mechanical complexity. So, let's pretend that whole issue has been addressed, the questions have been asked and answered, engineering is done, it's a wonderful thing, forever and ever, amen. Taking a typical design and adding couplings, moving adjusters to where you can't get at them easily, adding friction to the pivot point, etc. are all non-starters. Those things have all been done by various manufacturers, and while they all work, they're more costly to manufacture and they don't work well in practice so Wilkinson and Schaller have thankfully eliminated all those shortcomings. Actually the Wilkie and Schaller are very similar (surprise!), but the Schaller has roller saddles. That's one in their favor. On the down side, they don't seem to be interested in selling them in the US. Either that, or there's some sort of idiotic patent or trade/tariff issue involved.

Now, a hardtail, that's something doable. And to be fair, a number of manufacturers have already done a good job with those as well. There are plenty of examples of good fixed bridges out there. But, what do you do if you've got one of the less-than-stellar bridges installed that defy retrofitting with something better unless you mutilate your fiddle? I'm looking at you, Mr. Tuna Mattock, and all the other string-breaking tune-defying hard-adjusting weird-mounting TOM wannabes. Seems like a bridge with adjustable mounting pegs and adjustable roller saddles might be a Good Thing.

 

[DangerousR6]

Y'know, when I said "Bridge of Doom", I really wasn't thinking of a vibrato. I was thinking hardtail. Vibrato's been done to death, and Wilkinson/Schaller have both pretty much nailed it. They're simple, effective, repeatable, easily maintained, don't fight back, and aren't expensive. Some might argue the Floyd has a wider range, but that's more about the body routing than the bridge. Other than that, the Floyd has no advantage and several disadvantages.

A vibrato bridge that maintains tuning throughout its range would be desirable, but that's already been done, too, and it's wickedly expensive due to its mechanical complexity. So, let's pretend that whole issue has been addressed, the questions have been asked and answered, engineering is done, it's a wonderful thing, forever and ever, amen. Taking a typical design and adding couplings, moving adjusters to where you can't get at them easily, adding friction to the pivot point, etc. are all non-starters. Those things have all been done by various manufacturers, and while they all work, they're more costly to manufacture and they don't work well in practice so Wilkinson and Schaller have thankfully eliminated all those shortcomings. Actually the Wilkie and Schaller are very similar (surprise!), but the Schaller has roller saddles. That's one in their favor. On the down side, they don't seem to be interested in selling them in the US. Either that, or there's some sort of idiotic patent or trade/tariff issue involved.

Now, a hardtail, that's something doable. And to be fair, a number of manufacturers have already done a good job with those as well. There are plenty of examples of good fixed bridges out there. But, what do you do if you've got one of the less-than-stellar bridges installed that defy retrofitting with something better unless you mutilate your fiddle? I'm looking at you, Mr. Tuna Mattock, and all the other string-breaking tune-defying hard-adjusting weird-mounting TOM wannabes. Seems like a bridge with adjustable mounting pegs and adjustable roller saddles might be a Good Thing.

True, it's all been done and redone millions of times. both hardtail and trems alike. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, merely using this as an exercise to hone my skillz in Solid Works... I'm just having some fun with the Bridge of Doom"... :icon_biggrin:

 

[Cagey]

As long as your having fun, that's all that matters.

 

[B3Guy]

Ok, so here goes nothing. I realize this is out there, but it really is KISS. I'm merely "nesting" two shafts, one for saddle height, one for intonation. Let me explain components, and bear with me.

All of this is a cross-cut/cutaway.

1. saddle height key (in blue): this is just a small knob with an allen/hex shaft. That's it. It slides freely thru a circular opening in the face of the bigger knob, then into the hex inner surface of the saddle height screw (the screw is a hollow "tube" with the inside of the tube being hex to mate with the key shaft). turning the key thus also turns the screw, while allowing the two to "breathe" in length by sliding in and out of each other. (insert joke here).

2. intonation knob (in purple): is smooth and circular on the outside, threaded on the inside (it is a tube). this thread screws onto the outer-threaded intonation shaft, which is fixed (does not turn) to the rear wedge. Turning this key pulls the screw into (or pushes it out of) its own threaded tube.

3. rear wedge and intonation screw (in green): the outside of the screw has just been explained. This screw has an inner thread as well, though (also a threaded "tube"). into this tube, and into the face of the wedge, is threaded the rear of the adjustment screw, which is driven by the aforementioned blue key.

4. height screw (orange and red): this is the real brilliance of the whole operation, the thing I'm most keen to have tried out. the rest is only needed to get the adjustment knobs concentric, which is not necessary. The orange side has normal threads. when the screw is turned clockwise (if viewing from neck end), the screw goes farther into the rear wedge. To cause the screw to also advance into (rather than out of) the front wedge during clockwise rotation, the other (red) half of the screw is reverse-threaded (as is the front wedge, obviously.) as the key turns the height screw, the wedges move towards or away from eachother (rather than both moving along the shaft in tandem). this motion squeezes the saddle unit up and down very precisely.

this allows the saddle to rise and fall perpendicular to the bridge baseplate, rather than awkwardly rising at the front via two separate screws. Obviously, the saddle would also be ultimately locked down, and I've not worked on the actual saddle yet, other than the wedged bottom surface. It could incorporate roller saddles, fine tuners, etc. but for now it is simply a block.

Whaddaya think?

 

[B3Guy]

HEY! could you not use that thing the strihg goes thru as a fine-tuner? screw it in and out to adjust tension?

As far as a hardtail, I'd DIE for a more vintage-styled (or even just chrome/shiny) version of a wilkie (lock-down saddles).

OOH, here's an idea, and an easy one too! make fine-tuner string ferrules! (ferrules with a threaded component that pulls the string farther out of or further into the string-thru hole). That could be useful in certain situations, and it would be useable with tons of different bridges.

 

[DangerousR6]

Ok, so here goes nothing. I realize this is out there, but it really is KISS. I'm merely "nesting" two shafts, one for saddle height, one for intonation. Let me explain components, and bear with me.

All of this is a cross-cut/cutaway.

1. saddle height key (in blue): this is just a small knob with an allen/hex shaft. That's it. It slides freely thru a circular opening in the face of the bigger knob, then into the hex inner surface of the saddle height screw (the screw is a hollow "tube" with the inside of the tube being hex to mate with the key shaft). turning the key thus also turns the screw, while allowing the two to "breathe" in length by sliding in and out of each other. (insert joke here).

2. intonation knob (in purple): is smooth and circular on the outside, threaded on the inside (it is a tube). this thread screws onto the outer-threaded intonation shaft, which is fixed (does not turn) to the rear wedge. Turning this key pulls the screw into (or pushes it out of) its own threaded tube.

3. rear wedge and intonation screw (in green): the outside of the screw has just been explained. This screw has an inner thread as well, though (also a threaded "tube"). into this tube, and into the face of the wedge, is threaded the rear of the adjustment screw, which is driven by the aforementioned blue key.

4. height screw (orange and red): this is the real brilliance of the whole operation, the thing I'm most keen to have tried out. the rest is only needed to get the adjustment knobs concentric, which is not necessary. The orange side has normal threads. when the screw is turned clockwise (if viewing from neck end), the screw goes farther into the rear wedge. To cause the screw to also advance into (rather than out of) the front wedge during clockwise rotation, the other (red) half of the screw is reverse-threaded (as is the front wedge, obviously.) as the key turns the height screw, the wedges move towards or away from eachother (rather than both moving along the shaft in tandem). this motion squeezes the saddle unit up and down very precisely.

this allows the saddle to rise and fall perpendicular to the bridge baseplate, rather than awkwardly rising at the front via two separate screws. Obviously, the saddle would also be ultimately locked down, and I've not worked on the actual saddle yet, other than the wedged bottom surface. It could incorporate roller saddles, fine tuners, etc. but for now it is simply a block.

Whaddaya think?

So your just nesting the saddle in between two angles, which is actually mechanically a good idea, but there's nothing holding the saddle in place other than string tension.. :dontknow:

 

[Cagey]

Looks like it'll work, but it's awfully complex for a bridge. Plus, I gotta think it would cost quite a bit to make. You're talking about gun-drilling miniature rods and threading them, or threading bits of machined tubing and castings.

 

[B3Guy]

yep. a bit complex. its just a graphic representation, though, and I'm assuming the total shaft (all nesting included) would end up borderline chunky. I wouldn't do thin tiny little shafts and threads. I was thinking of the height adjustment allen key being about the size of what is used for adjusting saddle height on a normal saddle. obviously the rest of the tubes build in size around that.

Yes, the saddle is currently just floating there, but that's why I mentioned locking it down (which I have not worked out yet.) also, I would not make the wedge surfaces simply flat. I would probably groove and mate the surfaces parallel to the direction of movement in order to eliminate sideways play.

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

I'm gathering many an idea from this thread.  :sign13:

Floyd/bigsby/kahler kind of hybrid thing. Top mounted, because i'm over floating bridges. Dives like a floyd, seems as though it would be really stable tuning wise...... gotta build up the inspiration to make it on sketchup now.  :laughing7:

 

[B3Guy]

so you're thinking Bigsby with adjustable roller saddles and fine tuners? could be pretty awesome, especially since top-mount is so easy to put on virtually any guitar. is there a bigsby you could make a mod kit for, or would it be designed from scratch?

 

[Steve_Karl]

http://stetsbar.com/

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

so you're thinking Bigsby with adjustable roller saddles and fine tuners? could be pretty awesome, especially since top-mount is so easy to put on virtually any guitar. is there a bigsby you could make a mod kit for, or would it be designed from scratch?

Kind of, but a bit more hardcore on the vibrato side of things. Just need to find some to scale models of a floyd, TOM and a bigsby to work off. Splice 'n' dice.

 

[AutoBat]

I imagined the 'bridge of doom' to be a floyd at one end, and a kahler on the other end.
who needs a locking nut when you can have another bridge at the nut! (yes, with two wang bars)

 

[Superlizard]

Lots of mechanical ideas, but apparently no one is concerned in the least how this supposed bridge will sound...  :icon_scratch:

 

[B3Guy]

Lots of mechanical ideas, but apparently no one is concerned in the least how this supposed bridge will sound...   :icon_scratch:

oh yeah. I think we all just assumed it was obvious how it would sound. I was assuming we were going for a sort of "bag of rusty nails" sound, because a bridge sound like what its made of, and that's all I have around to work with  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[Superlizard]

"bag of rusty nails" sound

:icon_jokercolor:

 

[Alfang]

Yo Dangerous, Nice solidworks drawing, I also am a solidworks user.

I hate to burst your bubble, but after studying your drawing for just a few seconds I noticed something huge which you need to address, as soon as you push down on the trem the strings are gonna float off of the saddles.

I'm sure youl figure out an easy solution, also I'd love for you to forward me that solidworks file so I can maybe play with it too, And if i make any changes or whatever, I'll send it back to you, this is YOUR baby not mine.

Plus its just fun to rotate and flip the object arround  :toothy10:

 

[DangerousR6]

Yo Dangerous, Nice solidworks drawing, I also am a solidworks user.

I hate to burst your bubble, but after studying your drawing for just a few seconds I noticed something huge which you need to address, as soon as you push down on the trem the strings are gonna float off of the saddles.

I'm sure youl figure out an easy solution, also I'd love for you to forward me that solidworks file so I can maybe play with it too, And if i make any changes or whatever, I'll send it back to you, this is YOUR baby not mine.

Plus its just fun to rotate and flip the object arround  :toothy10:

Thanx bro, I totally missed the string issue, I'mma have to look at that.....Ya solid works is pretty cool, and you're right it is fun to flip and rotate objects around....Send me your email addy and I'll send the file to ya.... ccasion14:

 

[Alfang]

I like b3guys idea of a fine tuner being part of the string ferule.

 

[stubhead]

And you... tune it from the back, with an allen wrench? :icon_scratch: I didn't realize there were so many things "wrong" with the bridges I have, I need to bum out more.  :cool01: