Bridge of Dooooooom....

[B3Guy]

Ok, so lots of things have been thrown around so far, and something involving bearings is being vizualizatized. Sweet.

To organize a bit:

Yes, it will in fact blend, though not as well as a . . . well . . . you know.  :icon_thumright:

2 set screws were mentioned, and I think in keeping with K.I.S.S. (also mentioned), this seems to be the most obvious height adjustment method.

BUT! It was also brought up that it would be nice to keep pesky things from digging into the palm (namely adjustment screws). My reflex solution would be to reverse the system (what the screws thread into versus what they push against.) This could be possible. Also, I have an idea for fine-tuneable "shim" (a sort of wedge that gets pulled against an inverted wedge surface on the underside of the saddle . . . or even two wedges against inverted wedge surfaces that approach each other via a threaded-reverse threaded shaft.) It is pretty mechanically simple, but I'll draw it tomorrow because it is late.

As far as the bearing design is concerned, I was thinking along the lines of a boogie rail type thing, just as a big whopping hinge with bearings.

Once again, will draw tomorrow sometime. Its simple, I promise!

this is sooo much fun! great ideas everyone, keep 'em coming! (and the constructive criticism too, that always helps.

 

[DangerousR6]

Here's what I got so far, a bit old skool Floyd, and a bit Std. Fender... Kind of a merge of the two, the saddles would ultimately be different. These are just for the model only, not really revolutionary, but I'm still working on the pivot..Trying to do away with the knife edges, but yet still using a Floyd rout... :dontknow:

Strings would be a straight thru load, no bending or auckward angles...

 

[stubhead]

I'd be kind leery about ball bearings, myself, if that's what you mean by bearings. It's introducing another king of metal, of different density, with very small surface area contact points. I could see using like a little 3/16" bronze rod, across the front of the plate resting in a channel, and a corresponding channel on the body plate. There's an oil-impregnated bronze available, I've seen it here:
http://www.bostongear.com/products/bearings/impregnated.html
I'm sure you know you shouldn't use stainless bearings against stainless surfaces, right? The way I see this, there'd be a little flange at each end to hold the bearing in, but it could fall out when the guitar is stringless, so you could clean or  replace the bearing. I don't know what the patent situation is like for the Boogie Rail, or any other dogs barking up the same tree. If the two plates were interfering with the whammy's range, you could cut them like interlocking teeth or a dovetail king of thing? I can see it, just not explain it.

The reason I know about this company is that a friend gave me a couple of their non-impregnated bearings and I made some KILLER guitar slides from them, heavy as all get out but perfect for whanging away on a guitar with raised strings. Then I got curious; I finally tracked down their product listing:
http://www.bostongear.com/litportal/pdfs/Bearing%20pp%20017_25.pdf

Obsessive, well, it works for me!

You want to find, like, product #1418 18 or M1218 20. I bought a few more at some kind of clearance sale here:
http://www.richardscompany.com/Boston_bronzxs_Bobrnz.htm

ROWL ROWL ROWL ROWL ROWL ROWL ROWL ROWL ROWL <- me, playing slide

 

[OzziePete]

I guess I missed something...
soo, will it float? will it dive?? will it lock??

Will it blend?

Will it Work!
How about a Coke Bottle..... :icon_biggrin:
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCFXeChXfcI[/youtube]

 

[Steve_Karl]

The first requirement for me is is not to have any kind of adjustment screws or anything else that stick up above the level of the saddles and dig into my hand when I rest it on the bridge  . This comes before being able to adjust the height or even intonation individually.

I've modified the height of screws like that.
Last time I did it with a belt sander, but if I had to do it this decade I'd just dremel off a few threads on the bottom of the screws.

 

[Steve_Karl]

Here's what I got so far,

Lookin' good.

The best bar insert and tension adjust I've ever seen has been on the Kahler flat mount which is a screw in bar with a set screw.
Second is Wilkinson VS-100 but only second because I don't like the shape of the bar as well as I like the shape of the Kahler bar.
I also like the screw on bar end knob of the Kahler because it gives something better to hold.
I think the Wilkinson bar insertion with the plastic collar and set screw might be more enduring than the Kahler and more easily serviced just by replacing the collar.

I'd rather have strings through the block like a Wilk. to get the added string length and sustain, and also to not have to cut off the ends.
Options for brass or steel block might also be good and thicker heavier block but with the bulk added towards the claw side to not limit the dive range.

 

[stubhead]

The first requirement for me is is not to have any kind of adjustment screws or anything else that stick up above the level of the saddles and dig into my hand when I rest it on the bridge  Sad. This comes before being able to adjust the height or even intonation individually.

I've modified the height of screws like that.
Last time I did it with a belt sander, but if I had to do it this decade I'd just dremel off a few threads on the bottom of the screws.

Yeah, this a is just a basic part of setup. I'm not saying ~NO Guitar Shall Ever Leave the Factory with Protruding Saddle Screws~  but your guitar isn't finished until you fix that. I've heard people bitch about it as though it's someones else's responsibility, and if you're buying a $3000 Suhr or Hahn it ought to be done. But this is the Warmoth forum... :icon_scratch:

Three simple fixes:
1) buy some shorter screws, dude. AllParts, Angela; Ibanez Rules has a comprehensive supply and understanding of all things Floyd:
http://www.ibanezrules.com/parts.htm
I've bought some cheepo Ebay bridge just to get some screws (ahead of the game), it was cheaper for the whole bridge than to buy the screws!

WHOOPIE -> http://angela.com/search.aspx?find=saddle+screws

2) Shorten some screws yourself. You may be lucky enough to fit the top of the saddle adjuster screw into a drill chuck or Dremel head itself - then just hold it spinning against a file or good grade of paper like 3M wet/dry, oh try 320? against a really hard block, another file or something. But most likely you'll need to cut a bit off, and they're tiny - which is where that extra bridge, with the extra saddles available for sacrificial purposes comes in. Clamp the doomed saddle in a vise, stick the allen wrench into the screw to keep it from turning (you're cutting off the opposite end, we hope?) And whale away with the dremel cutoff disk. In a pinch, you can just hold the saddle in some vise grips, whichever side of the screw you attack with the cutoff wheel is going to try to either turn into or out of the saddle - but you'll be through it in a second. Bwah ha ha ha.You want the side that's resting on the bridge plate to be a bit conical, so it can be adjusted without "camming" the height irregularly. So you can figure out the part where you cut off a cheap allen wrench of the right size, so you can mount that in your Dremel or drill and round off the bottom of the screw? I thought so. Things that tend to go flying off into space can be temporarily taped or even Elmer'd into position....

3) Shim the neck. No Shet, Shirtlock, a ways back my friend the idiot rhythm guitarist showed up at my house in Austin at 5:30, he had just traded for a new guitar (it actually was a pretty nice franken tele) , I picked it up and got poked. I said "WH...T...F...etc" and he said "yeah, I already cut myself twice." We had to be SET UP and ready downtown at 8:00... A moment of bovine contemplation... shim the friggin' neck.

 

[iamdavidmorris]

Here's what I got so far, a bit old skool Floyd, and a bit Std. Fender... Kind of a merge of the two, the saddles would ultimately be different. These are just for the model only, not really revolutionary, but I'm still working on the pivot..Trying to do away with the knife edges, but yet still using a Floyd rout... :dontknow:

Want revolutionary?  I was just thinking about this.  What if you put something on the trem block that vibrates ever so slightly to create a sustainer that doesn't require sacrificing a pickup?  It would work on basically the same principle as this:

http://www.sustainiac.com/model-c.htm

...except that it wouldn't be hideously ugly and cumbersome.  I'm sure it would take a little trial and error, but would certainly be worthy of the title "Bridge of Doom."

 

[DangerousR6]

I guess I missed something...
soo, will it float? will it dive?? will it lock??

Will it blend?

Will it Work!
How about a Coke Bottle..... :icon_biggrin:
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCFXeChXfcI[/youtube]

There it is, problem solved....A coke bottle is the answer...Very good Pete.... :icon_thumright:

 

[swarfrat]

If you're going to do anything but a knife edge pivot - I've always been fascinated by frictionless pivots - but I don't know if you could find one that handle 120lbs static load + dynamic loading.

 

[Tipperman]

Am I the only one who prefers having height adjustment screws digging into the back of my palm?  :icon_scratch: I must be plum crazy.

Bridge is looking good!

 

[Cagey]

I've never had saddle height adjustment screws dig into my hands, and most of the bridges I've ever used has had them. Must lead a charmed life <grin>

I have seen them where it looked like they'd be a problem, though. The old Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridges looked wicked that way, as do traditional Tele bridges. But, I've never had occasion to suffer that design on any of my guitars, so... again. Charmed life.

I wouldn't have, anyway. I'd have replaced the bridge tout de suite, or at least adjusted those adjusting screws. That's what money, files, Dremel tools, etc. are for.

 

[OzziePete]

There it is, problem solved....A coke bottle is the answer...Very good Pete.... :icon_thumright:

All of you being machinists, engineers, designers etc....and it takes a bus driver to solve the problem, lol. :toothy12:..Then again, you ask any bus driver a question about any major problem the world has at the moment, and we'll think we have the answer! :evil4:

Coke bottle might work for a single string, but no action adjustment - and more importantly - no intonation adjustment for when you use more than one string. I have always liked the looksof the bridges that the L6S had (Bill Lawrence designed them I think - or sourced them), they seemed to have plenty of intonation adjustment for a ToM type of bridge & also the bridges that Alembic use have a large amount of room to move too.....

 

[DangerousR6]

Did a revamp on the saddles, would have a hinged 2 piece saddle with a adj roller. String would load straight thru the SHCS holding the saddle base block to the plate. NO NEED TO CUT OFF BALL ON STRING...Because the SHCS is hollow, as you can see from the blue line, there is a straight pull on the string to the roller...Still need to work on the pivot... :icon_biggrin:

 

[OzziePete]

....and there I was thinking Max was a smartie with dersigns using a PC..... :icon_scratch:

How long did it take you to do that design work on the 'puter Dangerous?

 

[DangerousR6]

....and there I was thinking Max was a smartie with dersigns using a PC..... :icon_scratch:

How long did it take you to do that design work on the 'puter Dangerous?

Yes I'm quite skilled with the PC, especially when it comes to grafix.... :icon_biggrin:

I worked on it off and on for an hour or so... I've not used Solid Works much, so there's a bit of a learning curve of time in there.. :toothy11:

Just for good measure, I added a recess in the front portion of the saddle block for clearance...

 

[B3Guy]

ok, so you have intonation adjustment on the front, moving the individual "bridge unit" along the side slots in the saddle, correct? Then the fine-tune screw out the back? (but won't it muck with intonation as well, or am I missing something?)

I was thinking of tiny (about the diameter of a pencil) ceramic bearings, often used in tiny R/C cars (try looking at XMODS R/C car parts.) The bearings would simply be placed in choice locations along a bolt-down "rail" (think big, fat BOOGIE) . . . then the bridge would secure to the bearings?

I will post up what I have. It has evolved into complex nesting adjustment mechanisms (think axels within axels and stacked adjustment knobs out the butt). Pic coming soon . . . I must label it first.

 

[DangerousR6]

ok, so you have intonation adjustment on the front, moving the individual "bridge unit" along the side slots in the saddle, correct? Then the fine-tune screw out the back? (but won't it muck with intonation as well, or am I missing something?)

I was thinking of tiny (about the diameter of a pencil) ceramic bearings, often used in tiny R/C cars (try looking at XMODS R/C car parts.) The bearings would simply be placed in choice locations along a bolt-down "rail" (think big, fat BOOGIE) . . . then the bridge would secure to the bearings?

I will post up what I have. It has evolved into complex nesting adjustment mechanisms (think axels within axels and stacked adjustment knobs out the butt). Pic coming soon . . . I must label it first.

Correct on the first part, but there is no "fine tuner"... It's just a SHCS(socket head cap screw) holding the saddle in place, much like a std strat trem. Only this one is hollow for the string to be loaded thru.

As such...

 

[Steve_Karl]

there is a straight pull on the string to the roller

Wouldn't you get more sustain with a strong break over the roller caused my loading the strings through the block?

 

[DangerousR6]

there is a straight pull on the string to the roller

Wouldn't you get more sustain with a strong break over the roller caused my loading the strings through the block?

Actually there will be some break over the roller, due to intonation adjustment of the saddle height... But it wouldn't be such a drastic break as in some bridges. However I think the sustain comes more from the amount of contact of the string than the break.... :dontknow: