When do errors and mistakes stop being acceptable in a custombuild?

[Steve_Karl]

Wow. Long drive. I'm glad you're safely back.

 

[Orpheo]

The guitars look nice, but they are nearly unplayable. there's an annoying rattle on the low E string I can't get out. the nut seems to be ok, action too. have to tweak it. it seems as if the neck has a positive bow carved. i.e.: the 12th fret is higher than the first or 22nd. darned.

I'll never do this again. warmoth for the rest of my life. I suppose they'll be in business for at least that long.

 

[Cagey]

You don't say if you've measured/adjusted it, but It's possible the truss rod has too much tension on it.

Most guys seem to fall into two camps with those - they either regard it as a black art and leave it to somebody else to mess with, or the just adjust the hell out of it until the neck is so out of whack it would make a better Hot Wheels track than a neck.

Wheeee! Check out my neck setup!​

But, it's really not that tough to do well, given the proper tools. They'll cost you a few bucks, but they'll pay you back handsomely if you own or plan to own more than one guitar. One caveat: you'll be able to do something well that most guys can't, and suddenly everyone will want to be your friend <grin>

But, all you really need is a good straightedge and some automotive-type feeler gauges.

Feeler gauges are quite inexpensive - it would be weird if you had to spend more than $8 or so for a full-tilt boogie set like this...

They range in size from 0.0015 to 0.035" (0.038 to 0.889mm).

Good straightedges are a different story, though. The one I use (and I tried really hard to find something similar at a better price) comes from Stewart-MacDonald.

You want something at least that good, and you want the 18" version. They're $47 from StewMac; I don't know what that translates to in pounds or euros.

Anyway, you lay that across the frets to see where the 'board is high/low, and if it's gradual, you can often take that out with about a 1/4 turn of the truss rod adjustment. High in middle, you turn the adjuster counter-clockwise (loosen it), and vice-versa. Use the feeler gauges to find when the 'board is level - you shouldn't be able to get a .001 feeler under the straightedge on any fret.

If you've lived well and brushed your teeth regularly, then once you're there you want to put some relief in the neck. That's accomplished by loosening the adjuster. It never takes more than a 1/4 turn to get where you want to be, so small movements are in order. Depending on how good a fret job has been done, you'll want somewhere between .008" and .012" of relief at the 8th fret. Smaller is better, but there's a limit. You have to leave room for the string to vibrate, or you'll get dead spots and buzzes. Once you're there, string it up and call it a love story.

If you've been a bad boy, relaxing the truss rod won't take the bow out, and you get to go get drunk and smash something up. Fixing that is not a trivial task.

While we're on the subject, another tool you might want to invest in as long as you're paying for shipping from the other side of the world is a "fret rocker".

Invaluable tool. For the $20 one costs, you'll wonder how you ever lived without it. I resisted buying one for a long time, making do with other tools because this one looked like a bit of nothing at the price. But, trust me - you want it. Of course, if you don't buy the files to take care of the problems it exposes, all it'll do it piss you off by pointing out problems you can't do anything about. But, at least you'll know what the problem is so when you take to someone who's invested in the files/polishers/etc., you can tell them what's up.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Post some pics of these bad boys now that you have them.  :icon_thumright:

 

[Orpheo]

@cagey measured them. Thx for info! Will adjust guitars tomorrow. I think their problems are due to the necks being so thick that the trussrod can't properly adjust. I'll be checking them in 9 hrs when I get back from work.

I will post pics when i feel positive about them. Right now they are like shit to me and avoid them unless absolutely neccassary... But they look stunning already. And the notes I can hear sound sweet too. Now playability!

 

[Steve_Karl]

you shouldn't be able to get a .001 feeler under the straightedge on any fret.

Nice post, and undoubtedly technically correct, but I've always been a "line of sight" and then "how's it feel" adjuster.
Not being able to get a  .001 under the straightedge at the 10th fret *might* be a bit on the "cold" side for me, as far as how it feels to play the guitar.

As straight as the straight edge, would definitely be too cold for me.

I also like a (higher than most would probably like it) high action.

I guess my point is just to bring it to the discussion, that when a neck is too straight it will feel colder, than if it has an ever so slight bow in it.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

It's only straight for leveling purposes.  How else could it be leveled?  Once that is achieved, the "bow" is put back in it.

 

[Steve_Karl]

Yes. I wasn't thinking that way. Thanks.

 

[Cagey]

Read it again. You don't leave it straight, you have to put some relief in it. You never want any bow. But, you wanna make it straight to start with, so you can check the frets and do any kind of work they need. Plus, from a straight neck, you often get some relief just putting strings on it, so you don't want add any more until you know where you're starting from.

 

[Cagey]

And just to be clear, "bow" refers to a neck that's high in the middle, which is why you never want that. It'll make your lower registers fret out. "Relief" refers to one that's low in the middle, which gives the strings some room to vibrate without hitting the frets.

 

[Steve_Karl]

Yes. Relief was the term I wasn't remembering.

 

[stubhead]

And for the first decade or so, you can do it by staring down the string and seeing where the neck lays in relation to it - strings, tuned up, have this lovely property of being straight. When you get into your thirties is the times when you want to start splorching great gobs of money on tools, because by the time you own them ALL, your eyesight will be shot and you'll need 'em....
:hello2:  :blob7:  :hello2:

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

It's only straight for leveling purposes.  How else could it be leveled?  Once that is achieved, the "bow" is put back in it.

Oops.  I was meaning relief as well.

 

[OzziePete]

The guitars look nice, but they are nearly unplayable. there's an annoying rattle on the low E string I can't get out. the nut seems to be ok, action too. have to tweak it. it seems as if the neck has a positive bow carved. i.e.: the 12th fret is higher than the first or 22nd. darned.

I'll never do this again. warmoth for the rest of my life. I suppose they'll be in business for at least that long.

I wouldn't be put off from ordering a custom guitar from someone else in the future, Orpheo, lots of manufacturers have a custom shop and they may be the way to go in future.. I had a fantastic experience with the Custom Shop @ Maton here in Australia, and I am sure there are others who have had great guitars made for them by several Custom Shops around.

 

[Orpheo]

I have put on even more tension on the neck by tuning it up a whole third. I noticed with all that tension that the buzz was gone. I hope that the necks will bend a bit into a relief, and if that fails, I'll be using skinny top heavy bottom strings.

 

[stubhead]

I'm always amazed by the advertising claims of action that's "1/32 of an inch high with absolutely no buzzing!" etc., so forth & so on. I've picked up Carvins & Pauls that the owner swore to me "no buzz" - yeah, until you hit the frigging strings.... Fender factory specs are buzzy as bees, I don't play SRV-ish hard but I do feel that if the string bangs against the next fret up more than ONCE - exactly - you're going to be losing a chunk of tone.  It's just physics, angles and momentum n' vectors n' 5hit.* if you always have a couple of stages of gain as your baseline, you can get away with lower action - but even then, it's harder to bend strings.

This just sounds like the strings need to pull the neck up tight against the truss rod, and you'll be in business. I do avidly support the notion that you should only crank the truss rod nut a max of 1/4 turn a day, and let it settle in between. If it takes days and days, it just takes days and days. Me love big neckmeat! :laughing7:
Perhaps "crank" is even the wrong term... arty07:

Depending on the overall mass (mostly of the neck) some guitars just like an 11-52 set better, some like a 10-46; I'm real fond of the Eric Johnson GHS sets, 11-14-19-28-40-52 and 10-13-18-26-38-50, though it's getting harder and harder to find them at a good price. It's the gauges that matter, though. Even if you can float a 9 and 11 up top, 042" low E's are really iffy in a band situation, they'll go 15 cents sharp whenever you twank 'em  with a bit of verve.

*(heh)

 

[DustyCat]

A shorter, more to the point email with legal action jargon might speak louder than a lengthy bashing session(?) :laughing11: :icon_scratch:. :laughing11:

 

[OzziePete]

A shorter, more to the point email with legal action jargon might speak louder than a lengthy bashing session(?) :laughing11: :icon_scratch:. :laughing11:

Orpheo has moved on from that I think. He now has what was done, in his possession and attempting to get them set up. The latter part of this Thread is now detailing what Orpheo is doing to get the guitars playable as best as he can -with others offering advice on set ups.

 

[Orpheo]

Indeed. I'm trying to get the Low E playable. it is still buzzing, the rest of the strings are very fine and playable. but how can I get one string to stop buzzing?

oh, and I'm wopping out the angle grinder tomorrow. I've had it with these hard woods. They are virtually unscrappable!

 

[Corey P.]

It could be that the nut or saddle is cut too low?