Voodoo finish, Part Deux

[Keyser Soze]

What sanding sealer does depends specifically on the product.  Some really do 'seal' off whatever is underneath, others just build quickly and sand easily (to get a super smooth surface for finishing.)

Also, if those staining techniques pan out I'd consider using a clear grain filler after staining and sealing.

 

[bagman67]

So would this Deft Lacquer Sanding Sealer (http://www.deftfinishes.com/Trade/Products/details.cfm?ProductID=2) be a true sealant, or just a build-quickly/smooth surface type sealer?

Thanks

bagman

 

[phred]

Any Progress?

Scott

 

[bagman67]

I did some work on this over the weekend, but didn't have time to do much.

Here's what I have accomplished:

I gave my blue, purple, and red panels that had no black dye a couple coats of Deft Lacquer Sanding Sealer. 

I  then  filled two panels of my test board with Timbermate Rustic Ebony water-based filler.  This stuff dries pretty quickly, and was dry enough to sand back within an hour.  No photos of the filled wood prior to sanding, but the result is interesting for a guy who has done very little wood finishing.

Here's the originally blue-without-black panel, filled with the ebony filler, and then sanded back:

As you can see, I managed to sand off a little color along with the filler.  The filler went on kinda thick. I think if I thin the filler a little I'll have better luck and won't need to work so hard to get it all smoothed out.

Here it is with another wash of dye:

Sanding back the filler also got a lot of dust into the pores of the adjacent red square:

Here's the end panel, black dye, no colored tint, after filling with the ebony filler and sanding back:

And here it is after I gave it a blast of the red-tinted lacquer thinner:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4496106218_24770f647f.jpg/img]

That last photo is a little more dramatically contrasted than the earlier shot with only black dye in the grain:

[img]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4496106218_24770f647f_b.jpg



All told, I'm looking forward to getting  a bottle of India ink this coming weekend and trying some truly opaque black, and sanding back to streak in red (and I believe I'll seek to mix some red that will be a little deeper, since this one wants to be scarlet and I am really after more of a crimson -- I'll get a little deep blue to temper it with, or perhaps get a bordeaux red by itself.

Anyway, that's progress, such as it is.

Looking forward to feedback from y'all.

Bagman

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Says "photo unavailable - Flickr"
Patrick

 

[Watershed]

Coming along very nice!
Amazing how much you can learn from testboards.

 

[bagman67]

Says "photo unavailable - Flickr"
Patrick

Flickr's been a little dodgy today, especially with the last one let me try again:

Red dye on top of black fill:

 

[erogenousjones17]

Ooh I like that. I know it's not quite what you're after, but I think it looks pretty sweet.

 

[bagman67]

Thanks, EJ - I like it, too.  I'm gonna give it a little more color, then seal and lacquer it and see what I get.  If I can't replicate the sample shot, this is pretty dang acceptable, also.

 

[phred]

I got the same effect as yours. I'm using water based TransTint Dye and Timbermate Ebony grain filler w/black dye added. I did a black dye then grain fill, sanded back lightly w/400 grit. Sanding sealer then dark red dye.

Scott

 

[Jet-Jaguar]

I've been digging this thread. It's turning out really nicely.

If I can't replicate the sample shot, this is pretty dang acceptable, also.

Don't let the sample shot hold you back.  From what I can see, there's a good chance you'll come up with something better, at least to my eye.

 

[zogoibi]

thanks for all the pictures; they're very informative.

 

[bagman67]

Okay, some new info -

1.  Higgins permanent black ink is NOT india ink, and does not work worth a damn at coloring wood evenly.  Good thing I did this on a sample scrap.

2.  Timbermate water-based wood filler dries enough to sand within an hour.  This is convenient - it allows you to get several fills done in a day, rather than spreading over several days (assuming you don't mind spending your entire day filling and sanding and filling and sanding and filling and .... you get the point).

3.  Thought I'd post a couple pics of what I have on hand here that's actually related to the planned guitar build itself, rather than the experiment:

a - the guitar body - a nice, straight-grained white ash.  Overall, I like the grain a lot, but the builder (not Warmoth) seems to have had an unsteady hand with the drum sander he used to clean up the sides - sanding has been difficult and ridges have shown up from time to time; and the keen-eyed among you will note that the humbucker rout is a little screwed up, also.  I had hoped to do this build without a pickguard, but that's not gonna happen now, since the rout took away so much wood that I cannot securely screw in all four corners of the pickup ring. Lesson learned:  Warmoth next time.

b - the pickup around which I am actually building this thing - a Seymour Duncan Phat Cat (neck pos'n) in gold.  I picked this guy up at Guitar Center on their clearance table - only 43 bucks.  I plan to pair it with a Roadhouse Special from UW's own TroubledTreble in the bridge. 

I first ran across the Phat Cats in a custom built guitar made by one of the guys who works at Gryphon Stringed Instruments in Palo Alto (http://www.gryphonstrings.com ).  They claim to be a humbucker-form-factor P90 analog, which is kinda true, but mostly I just like how they sound.  The guitar itself was the most mindbogglingly flamed piece of black korina I have ever laid eyes on.  I've played them in a couple other guitars since, including an ash-bodied bolt-neck, so I think I know what I'm likely to wind up with here.

 

[bbl4ck]

Hey, everything sounds good and I am posting here because I want to be sure and tune in to your finished product. 
Good luck and thanks for all your pics...
:kewlpics: &  :rock-on:

 

[wilds_dog]

Hello,

I came across this thread while doing research on the "Voodoo" finish.
I'm considering attempting this on my Warlock. Any new developments?

 

[bagman67]

Thanks for the followup!

I've made a little progress, but it's been some time since I've actually had the iPhone attached to the computer so I haven't uploaded the photos. 

I'm up against a nasty problem with my sanding sealer feeling a bit tacky to the touch (after having been applied for over a month), so I do believe I'll have to strip and start again with another product.  I tried to give a light sanding with 320-grit aluminum oxide paper in preparation for applying the blackburst edge I've settled on - and the sandpaper clogged instantly and the blobs of gunky sanding sealer on the sandpaper scoured the surface and actually scratched through the dye to bare wood.

Words of profanity were uttered.

Peace

Bagman.

 

[bagman67]

Okay, so I have accomplished the following:

I did the grain fill and sand back (x3) and seal with a light coat of Deft lacquer, then I hit it with india ink and sanded back to mostly bare wood, then hit it with a mixture of Mixol blue and purple tints suspended in lacquer thinner, and then shot it with a Deft lacquer sealer with an eye toward following up with a black burst edge.  However, the Deft rattlecan sealer never solidified all the way - I thought after a few weeks that I was okay, then I hit it with sandpaper and it gummed up instantly, causing the clogged sandpaper to scour the surface.

Profanity was uttered.

I put it aside for the last six months, during which time my life and my wife's have been totally insane what with her father getting ready to die and my ex-wife losing her mind to the extent a custody battle is now ongoing - but that's not what we're here to talk about.

Therapy occurred today in the form of a liberal application of lacquer thinner to the body, getting rid of that gummy, scoured coat of lacquer and most of the purply-blue coloration.  Time to start over, sort of.  The grain fill is in pretty good shape, but I'm gonna take this opportunity to fix up some imperfections I was prepared to live with on the first attempt.  I'll be approaching this a little differently this time, though - I'll get a can of McFaddens and tint some of it with my Mixol colors, and shoot a transparent purply-blue, then the black burst edge, and then topcoat with clear McFaddens.  The original vision of a purple version of the Gibson Voodoo finish is just not to be.

Here's the new starting point (subject to another wipedown with the lacquer thinner - I can see some smear-age in the left lower bout that needs cleaning up, and there's bound to be more I can clean off):

The goal is for it to look a lot like this, only better on the second attempt:

 

[Cagey]

Profanity was uttered.

Between the frustration of uncooperative finishes and insane ex-wives, it sounds like an opportunity create whole new genres of profanity <grin>

But, it looks like you've made good progress regressing to a do-over point. It's a nice-looking body, so it'll be worth the effort. If you haven't already, I'll bet in the end you'll wish you hadn't tried to save the money a professional finish from Warmoth or Tonar would have cost, though. It always seems expensive on the going-in side, but in the end it's always a bargain, unless you enjoy working for 50 cents an hour and losing money on materials.

 

[Watershed]

Thanks for the update.

Good to hear about the Timbermate filler being sandable in a hour, I'm going to definitely give it a try.
I have plugged Z-Poxy a bunch of times, but you have to wait at least 8 hours between sandings.
Always open to new ideas.

I have been using the Mixol pigments lately, and would choose them over the Colortone pigments going forward.
It's definitely good stuff.

I'm not sure that the technique of diluting the Mixol pigment in thinner is the best, though.
I have never tried this method so I can't say for sure, but that's my suspicion as to your problem.

I dilute the Mixol pigments in lacquer at no more than a 5% concentration.  That's enough to be opaque.
The way that stuff is designed, is that it appears to never dry, which is nice because it's not supposed to dry out on the shelf.
Just my opinion.  I would dilute it in lacquer, and apply it with a preval.
This stuff is most definitely not a dye, which you can apply straight to the wood.

Hope it works out for you,
James

 

[exaN]

Dude that's such a sick finish, really really like it :icon_thumright: