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Vintage guitars have "Golden" tone? Yes or No?

arealken

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What's your opinion on the "sacred" tone of vintage guitars, Would you give everything you have  for a 60's Strat, a 50's Les Paul for example? Do modern Roasted Vintage construction Strats get you most of the way there? Like to see Warmoth do a shootout with an old Strat or Paul  if they dare, and let the people decide!
 
Age is no guarantee of golden vibes. In my 40 years at the bench I've worked on a number of vintage instruments that did not sing, and apparently - were beyond my skills to make them sing. Does that mean they were turds from the get go? We'll never know. Hopefully, the turds end up in a museum not being played anyway.
 
We have one "vintage" instrument shop where I live and I have heard a few old guitars there. At this point in time I only believe that some individual guitars are gems and others are merely one off an assembly line, regardless of when or where they were made. What governs the difference is beyond any opinion on my part. Even if I had the money I doubt very much I would drop it on an old strat, let alone a Gibson equaling a house purchase in the Midwest.
 
Many people who talks about this haven't even trouched one!!!!

A couple of 14 year olds on the bus the other day talked about "what if you found a 50s Les Paul in the basement, what a tone it would have!"

I have a 70s Fender Musicmaster and with the same pickups it doesn't really sound different than any of my Warmoth superstrats I've made the last few years  :doh: or my 80s Barrington superstrat  :doh: or Jackson RR24 from a few years ago  :doh:

I've tested recorded some of these back to back with the same pickup swapped and yeah... The pickup is where its at, with minor differences after that (which by experimenting, can be traced to bridge, and then after that, maybe wood but I haven't got any clear audiable results by swapping necks with different materials for example)
 
I have played 60s Strats, I almost bought one in the 70s but wanted a new one versus something second hand. I am not sure what the earliest Les Paul was that I played.

There are great instruments from almost any era. There are less than great instruments from any era.

If you keep a bottle of vinegar in a cellar for 25 - 50 years it will not turn into a fine wine. It has to be a fine wine to start with.

So I am going to say vintage does not equal golden tone. Some vintage instruments may have a golden tone.
 
I've never seen/played a "vintage" instrument I'd want to own/keep for playing purposes, and have never understood the fascination with them.
 
If vintage is 20 years or more. I have a vintage Hamer, late eighties. Honduran Mahogany, OBL pickups, Floyd Rose. Sounds great, it did when it was new too.

It has new stainless frets as the originals were worn and a replacement pot.
 
I think the biggest misconception about vintage guitars is...

"they were all handmade"

So what? That just makes for more errors in the building process.

And new guitars are only "CNC machined and mass produced"

Well... Warmoth is a good example of CNC machined greatness  :turtle:

It all comes down to what pieces of wood was used. If its a rubbery crap piece of wood that bends in slightest weather change, then it will stay that way. Just make sure its stable and it will hold up, handmade or not
 
(Handmade).... just makes for more errors in the building process.

You made an error in assumption, Cederick. Ever heard of "Viva la difference!"? Differences are what you get with hand built. Hand built makes allowances for certain materials or techniques that actually improve over CNC machines who don't see, think, or feel. And hand built is still something that is cherished - especially from high end makers like Benedetto, Somogyi, etc. It's called CRAFTMANSHIP. You pay extra to get it.

Again - makers THINK. Machines don't. And they don't always do what men tell them to do. We see it every day when you think about it. How often does your PC butch up? Your car? Get the picture?

And new guitars are only "CNC machined and mass produced".

Again, Cederick - error in assumption. You think machine made means no mistakes... What it really means is BIGGER mistakes. I know, my other job was as a tool & die machinist. I also having been programming since the late 70's and made a lot of stuff on CNC machines. The people who run them make mistakes at nearly every point in the process, and any machinist has seen CNC's act with minds of their own, tearing up parts and even damaging themselves. It's true. CNC is no guarantee of greatness.

You and I will never know just how much stuff gets butched up by CNC machines at Warmoth, Taylor, Gibson, etc. Most goofs are immediately obvious, and will never leave the production floor to see the light of day.

Finally, mass production used to have a bad connotation. It still does to a degree. Mass production does not guarantee high quality. It guarantees a certain level of average quality. Which is why most Taylors all sound alike, but they don't all sound great.

So, yes - Warmoth is high quality, no argument there. But it's not because of CNC. I've been doing business with them way before they used CNC stuff - they used jigs and fixtures and even hand tools. They set the bar pretty high, and THAT'S what counts. Not the tool they use to achieve it.
 
Over the years I've played around 15 instruments from the 50's/60's.  This included a 53 gold top, some telecasters, a jazzmaster, some strats, several gretsches, a jag, a jazz bass, and a trombone.

The only one that was a spectacular instrument was the trombone.  The rest were really quite average - especially that gold top (which was pretty crappy actually).

Based on my experience alone I'd say no - they don't have golden tone.  I'd speculate that some did at one point, but not any  of the ones that I sampled.

BTW - back in the late 70's you could get a 50's Gretsch for about $500 CAN!!  Kinda wish I'd bought one.  But nah - I was more interested in an instrument to make music with  :)
 
stratamania said:
If vintage is 20 years or more.

Well that's the question isn't it? At what age does an instrument become 'vintage'?

I think I've got it down to the year you started playing -5 years, or the year you were born + 15yr, whichever is the older.

I think this needs more thought, or less.  :icon_scratch:
 
Mayfly said:
BTW - back in the late 70's you could get a 50's Gretsch for about $500 CAN!!  Kinda wish I'd bought one.  But nah - I was more interested in an instrument to make music with  :)

I remember things much the same way. In the '70s, a '50s guitar wasn't "vintage", it was just "used". Couldn't get much for them. Then, a $500 Gretch from the '50s wouldn't look nearly as attractive as a brand spankin' new Les Paul Custom for $600. If you actually wanted something used, the pawn shops were full of prizes you could almost buy with Monopoly money. Of course, now with the internet, the pawn shops know what they have so good deals have gotten pretty thin on the ground. They just make more money on the defaults because they still only loan about 5-10 cents on the dollar.
 
amigarobbo said:
stratamania said:
If vintage is 20 years or more.

Well that's the question isn't it? At what age does an instrument become 'vintage'?

I think I've got it down to the year you started playing -5 years, or the year you were born + 15yr, whichever is the older.

I think this needs more thought, or less.  :icon_scratch:

In other areas vintage is after 20 years, antique after 100 years.
 
For me there really are two parameters:

"Good" - when the guitar enters that state I become interested.

"Expensive" - when the guitar enters that price range I loose interest.
 
Age is no guarantee of tone.  A bit of elimination does take place as the turds are not cared for/taken care of and meet their demise often sooner than a non turd.  The current appearance of their quality is now altered now as only the better vintage items are available. You could get an idea of the impact using a Monte Carlo simulation
 
  Vintage guitars. Well over time the wood dries out and the pickups loose a bit of magnetism so there is a difference to the sound. But some brands are not magic and I will not pay a Kings ransom to play them.
    I had an old ES 125 i sounded great but was more functional as a cheese slicer than as a guitar.
 
New guitars are far better than old guitars. The best thing about vintage guitars is a feeling of nostalgia.
 
Right. It's like sitting in an old car, and maybe driving it if you're brave. Brings back memories, and that's fine. But, you wouldn't want to own one, or have to deal with one on a regular basis. They just weren't very good cars.

Guitars are the same way. An old Strat is a real pain the shorts. The tuners were junk Klusons, the nut was plastic, the frets were tiny, the bridge wouldn't stay in tune more than 30 seconds after you started playing, the pickups were weak, the fretboard radius was too small, they were noisy - they just weren't very good guitars.

Sure, Jimi played one to great effect. But, what choice did he have? I wasn't building guitars back then :laughing7:
 
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