Treble Bleed; Variants and personal experiences?

[Tretgeraet]

Is it legitimate to say I don't like Treble Bleeds because I like how dark and dull the sound gets in a certain range? My guitar just has a Volume Pot, I find it adds nicely to the missing Tone Control.

Absolutely not! It is forbidden in this holy house of thee who seek the treble... No, I'm kidding, of course it is legitimate, you like what you like!

I might add, that if ppl like treble bleeds or not, or which kind they prefer depends highly on the gear they use, what kind of music they play with it, etc... add that to personal taste!

I didn't really notice how much the change to a more linear taper on the volume pot, that comes with the "resistor and capacitor in parallel"-variants bothered me, until I compared it directly. Now I'm tending more towards "resistor and cap in series".

I'm using my volume pot to mute the guitar between songs and to clean up a distorted/overdriven/fuzzed sound. I very rarely use a "clean sound", my "clean" is volume down. With that I like a treble bleed, so that my clean sounds won't sound dull. But with that I also like an audio taper, because otherwise from 10 down to like 6 there happens almost nothing.

Others might have different preferences. Maybe they play mostly clean, or they want the frequencies the same across the pot travel above all else. Or both!

Or maybe they use a treble booster all the time!?

So many different tastes and preferences!

 

[Strat Avenger]

I like how the sound "fattens" up when I back off the volume control, so no treble bleed for me.

 

[Archie Macfarlane]

A lot of people recommend a Kinman treble bleed resistor in series with the capacitor, which preserves log taper a bit better, but of course you can also try a tone control wired to the output of your volume pot, which is referred to as 50s wiring.

This in effect reverses the tone controls dampening as you roll down the volume

Tone after volume so it doesn't see the coils directly

 

[Archie Macfarlane]

David Collins YouTube has a good video on this topic

 

[Tretgeraet]

A lot of people recommend a Kinman treble bleed resistor in series with the capacitor, which preserves log taper a bit better, but of course you can also try a tone control wired to the output of your volume pot, which is referred to as 50s wiring.

This in effect reverses the tone controls dampening as you roll down the volume

Tone after volume so it doesn't see the coils directly

I agree that 50's wiring helps, although it's not as effective as a real treble bleed.

Also, the guitar I talked about in the first post doesn't have a tone control, so 50's wiring was not an option.

I'm testing the Kinman treble bleed at the moment and I think I prefer it.

 

[Tretgeraet]

David Collins YouTube has a good video on this topic

Thanks, that was already shared in post #23.

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

Anyone know anything about the PCB board treble bleed Fender made for the American Professional series? Musically has a supposed replica of it you can buy.

The first generation Pro series from around 2018 had hard wired components, rather than a PCB. The service manual shows the values used.

 

[Archie Macfarlane]

Thanks, that was already shared in post #23.

Looks like you shunts beet me to it! Nice one

 

[Tretgeraet]

Back for a (final?) verdict!

Well, this topic turned out to be much more complicated than I anticipated, when I started this thread two months and... two days ago!

Treble bleeds are indeed subject to taste, personal and musical preferences and other equipment, like amps and pedals.

For me, the search for the right treble bleed variant seemed to be over 27 posts ago, but then I thought I'd try the Kinman/series treble bleed variant in my second telly build.

I was surprised to find that I liked that variant much more. So much more in fact, that within a week, I changed ALL guitars I updated with the parallel treble bleed variant before, to the Kinman treble bleed.

I used the same values, 1nF and 150k in guitars with a tone control and 470pF and 150k in the guitar without a tone control.

Does it have the same constant treble as the parallel variant?

I don't know! I noticed no disadvantage, but a much much more usable pot taper for my purposes!

So, in a shorter form, the pros and cons again:

Cap only:
Plus:
- doesn't change the taper
- works well for a huge variety of styles
Minus:
- Can be too much! For example with fuzzes and treble boosters, especially on guitars without a tone control.

Values:
180pF worked well in my 7/8 S-Style.

Cap and resistor in parallel:
Plus:
- Treble is more constant.
Minus:
- Changes the taper of the pot. A lot.

Values:
1nF and 150k seem to be standard. If that is too trebly at lower volumes, especially if there's no tone control, a lower value capacitor like 680pF, or even 470pF might help.

Cap and resistor in series a.k.a. the Kinman treble bleed:
Plus:
- Less change of taper, felt more natural to me.
Minus:
-... it's a little less compact? I don't know, I found no real disadvantage yet!

Values:
Same as the parallel variant!


That's all so far, I hope I don't have to revive this thread again, because I make another discovery that changes everything!

And lastly: I stayed with the 180pF cap only in my 7/8 S-Style, because it fits that guitar perfectly.

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

Your post makes sense to me. I only used series treble bleeds with linear volume pots. A lot of variation is possible by fine tuning the component values.