Tonality differences among Warmoth's hollow bodies

[rauchman]

Greetings,

I've been toying with a Mooncaster for a couple of years now for the idea of hollow body build.  I also have a Gibson Midtown, which I understand is build kind of like a glued on neck Mooncaster.  Really like the sound of the Midtown a lot, but I think the Burstbuckers pups are a large part of that sound.

But if I think of it objectively, assuming same woods and parts are used, is there a tonal difference in what a Mooncaster offers vs. a Warmoth hollow body, Strat, Tele or VIP?  Once one gets past the body shape, is there a sonic difference in the various hollow bodies?  Does the larger physical dimensions of the Mooncaster play a part in the sound?

 

[Kostas]

Greetings,

I've been toying with a Mooncaster for a couple of years now for the idea of hollow body build.  I also have a Gibson Midtown, which I understand is build kind of like a glued on neck Mooncaster.  Really like the sound of the Midtown a lot, but I think the Burstbuckers pups are a large part of that sound.

But if I think of it objectively, assuming same woods and parts are used, is there a tonal difference in what a Mooncaster offers vs. a Warmoth hollow body, Strat, Tele or VIP?  Once one gets past the body shape, is there a sonic difference in the various hollow bodies?  Does the larger physical dimensions of the Mooncaster play a part in the sound?

I have no experience with the Mooncaster and there's no info about their construction, it just says hollow. I think the larger dimensions will affect more the acoustic than the amplified sound. After that it's personal preference, for example I prefer the original Gibson ES guitars than the recent small models but I like all their big bodied guitars whether it's an ES or Flyinng V - Explorer. They look better to me.

Since you have a Midtown I suggest you check the ES models, they have a different construction so you'll get to experience a different guitar. Especially the 330, it's a completely hollow guitar and differs a lot from the others. Hollow body + P90's is the perfect match, IMO.

 

[Toulouse_Tuhles]

Forget the shape thing... totally irrelevant, other than for your own idea of what looks good.
In all my experimentation, the NECK wood will be the biggest determining factor for tone, second only to the pickups.  A fairly distant, but significant #3 is the chambering of the body - be that chambers, or Thinline (aka Warmoth Starcaster).
If you like what you have in the Gibby, may I humbly a suggest a mahogany neck, and body wood of your choice.
The BB pickups are part of it.... a big part.... and the BB#3 at the bridge and #2 or #1 at the neck should do nicely if you like their one.  I, for one, do like their tone, and have used a few #3's at the bridge to "balance" with P90's at the neck.
If you like a really "sweet" toned neck, I'd suggest the #1 there, vs the #2.  It has more clarity, more chime if you will.  The #2 is great too, a little more middy.  The #3 is even more so, but at the bridge, gets its brightness none the less.

 

[rauchman]

Thanks gents.  About what I figured.  The body shape will probably have little, or no effect on sound.  I may just build myself a Warmoth hollow body and possibly ditch the Midtown.  The ES sounds wonderful, but waaaaaaaaay out of my budget.  I'd love to have the ES model that is like the 335, but with the access cover for the control cavity....334?

By the way, the neck on the Midtown is maple, which is one of the things I like about the sound.  Gives a little more brightness and pop.

 

[TBurst Std]

Greetings,

I've been toying with a Mooncaster for a couple of years now for the idea of hollow body build.  I also have a Gibson Midtown, which I understand is build kind of like a glued on neck Mooncaster.  Really like the sound of the Midtown a lot, but I think the Burstbuckers pups are a large part of that sound.

But if I think of it objectively, assuming same woods and parts are used, is there a tonal difference in what a Mooncaster offers vs. a Warmoth hollow body, Strat, Tele or VIP?  Once one gets past the body shape, is there a sonic difference in the various hollow bodies?  Does the larger physical dimensions of the Mooncaster play a part in the sound?

Hello,

If you use similar woods, electronics, etc, a Mooncaster would yield something quite similar to a Midtown. You are correct in that the body constructions are similar. Neither fit into the luthier concept of a semi-hollow or a hollow construction though.  You could also lump Rickenbackers into this group of the Mooncaster and Midtown.  All are HEAVILY chambered bodies that have a cap glued on. (some on the top, some on the bottom.

A semi-hollow or hollow body is built using bent sides, then with both a top and bottom glued on. The difference between them is that on a semi hollow, there is an additional center block that is glued in there.

I have a fair amount of exposure to all 3 build types, having either owned or currently owning:

Heavily chambered: Gibson Midtown, Godin Flat Five X, Ric 360/12
Semi-hollow: ES 345, Duesenberg Starplayer TV, Gretsch White Falcon CB
Hollow: Epiphone Casino, Heritage HM530

So while the terminology is off as neither is a hollow body, yes a Mooncaster would be similiar to a Midtown. Comparing it to a true semi-hollow or hollow would move you further from the mark as the construction method differs so greatly.

 

[TBurst Std]

And yes, their are tonal differences between the build styles. A lot of this can be controlled through woods, electronics, etc. I do need to mention there is a difference playing these at live volume, even on a silent stage. I mention this as it's just not actual volume, but also gain structure you are using.

Even keeping things tame at home at under 80db, with a higher gain structure, my HM-530 (hollow) will offer up feedback much easier than my semi-hollows (Gretsch, Doozy), while my Ric and Godin (heavily chambered) are much more resistant.

Again, radically different construction methods between these.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

When determining the tonal "differences" between hollow bodies, first one must calculate just how much "tone" occupies a pre-determined measurement of cubic "space", ie; cycles per second,  and then the measurement of cubic "space" in each hollow body needs to be measured.

Then, one can make an excel spreadsheet of each model, referencing its measurements, x's the tonal space, which will then provide the measurements of tonal difference for each model using excel's formulas to perform the auto-calculation.




or..... some sorta similar cork sniffery.... :icon_scratch:

 

[rauchman]

Greatly appreciate everyone's replies.

So, to sum up, assuming same body woods, necks, pups, etc., there really isn't much of a tonal difference between a Warmoth Mooncaster or hollow body Tele.  It's really about aesthetics then. 

If there are tonal differences, the Mooncaster should be closest to the Midtown town due to construction similarities, and I'm guessing a smidge more spank due to the bolt on neck.

Do I have this right then?

 

[TBurst Std]

Yes.