To go kahler, or not to go kahler, thats the question

[Orpheo]

I have my main axe. walnut body, figured koa top, ziricote neckback, ebony board, prails, and the bottleneck: tune o matic bridge. I dont want floyd, no never ever. they're ugly, bulky, and you need to have a major hole in your beautiful back.

I have another bottleneck aswel. the ziricote neck is a singlepiece (lovely), straight angled headstock (bummer). I use a string retainer to push the strings down, unto the nut. I prefer a more elegant solution, but warmoth was at first reluctant to make an angled head, and now i have a GREAT sounding axe, but with occasional tuning issues, and an ugly bar. I hate the bar. I play the guitar a LOT, there's no guitar like this one, in tone and feel.

well, the solution presented itself; a locking nut. but I refuse to have such a nasty think f*ck up my lovely axe, without having a tremolo unit installed! so, kahler popped into my mind.

what do you guys think? is a kahler a good thing to do? I kinda miss having a tremolo on this guitar. I miss my whobbles, I miss my fluttering, and I miss my divebombs. I dont mind routing in the body, but only if it serves a good purpose. a roland GK3 is butt ugly, so I wont rout for that thing. but if the kahler won't suck too much tone, maybe even make it more bright (which I never had a problem with...  :hello2: ) and if its very, very sturdy and stable, why not?

so, what do you guys think?

 

[dmraco]

I personally love Kahlers.  I just put one on my BlackKorina/Burl Maple soloist.  This is my 3rd kahler! 

Personally I hate the floyds.  I do however use a floyd locking nut instead of the kahler...I just think it is a better unit.  I have a bunch of routing templates if you decide to go that route...HA>>>with a kahler

 

[kboman]

Well, I've never really tried either of them but Kahlers just strike me as much more intelligent. Why carve out a great big hole in the back of your beautiful guitar if it can be avoided?

Also: 25+ years of Adrian Belew cannot be wrong.

 

[dmraco]

back...with a kahler...a thing of beauty.....front looks damn good too....

 

[Orpheo]

Well, I've never really tried either of them but Kahlers just strike me as much more intelligent. Why carve out a great big hole in the back of your beautiful guitar if it can be avoided?

Also: 25+ years of Adrian Belew cannot be wrong.

it's not a big hole. its a 1'' deep slot, 1'' long, not the huge hole of the other flatmount kahler. its the gibson-kahler.

 

[Orpheo]

I personally love Kahlers.  I just put one on my BlackKorina/Burl Maple soloist.  This is my 3rd kahler! 

Personally I hate the floyds.  I do however use a floyd locking nut instead of the kahler...I just think it is a better unit.  I have a bunch of routing templates if you decide to go that route...HA>>>with a kahler

what makes for you, kahler better than floyd rose? don't you have the problem that when you bend, the string goes flat?

 

[kboman]

Well, I've never really tried either of them but Kahlers just strike me as much more intelligent. Why carve out a great big hole in the back of your beautiful guitar if it can be avoided?

Also: 25+ years of Adrian Belew cannot be wrong.

it's not a big hole. its a 1'' deep slot, 1'' long, not the huge hole of the other flatmount kahler. its the gibson-kahler.

No no, I meant the Floyd rout! It looks awful. Kahlers are much neater.

 

[Orpheo]

Well, I've never really tried either of them but Kahlers just strike me as much more intelligent. Why carve out a great big hole in the back of your beautiful guitar if it can be avoided?

Also: 25+ years of Adrian Belew cannot be wrong.

it's not a big hole. its a 1'' deep slot, 1'' long, not the huge hole of the other flatmount kahler. its the gibson-kahler.

No no, I meant the Floyd rout! It looks awful. Kahlers are much neater.

ooh okay! yeah, that makes more sense, eventhough the flatmount kahlers need a big hole too, but not as big as the floydrout, and: its being covered entirely by the trem, and its 'footprint' is as big as the surface of the ToM-combination. afterall, the 'beautiful woods' aren't really clearly visable underneath the strings.

 

[dmraco]

I personally love Kahlers.  I just put one on my BlackKorina/Burl Maple soloist.  This is my 3rd kahler! 

Personally I hate the floyds.  I do however use a floyd locking nut instead of the kahler...I just think it is a better unit.  I have a bunch of routing templates if you decide to go that route...HA>>>with a kahler

what makes for you, kahler better than floyd rose? don't you have the problem that when you bend, the string goes flat?

Better feel and adjustability with the kahler.  Also...since it is a fixed system and not a float like the floyd...make a better resting spot for HEAVY palm muting.  I have been playing a kahler for 20+ years...so I may be partial.

As far as the string going flat...I have never really had a problem.  Correct spring tension, saddle lube (the metal type helps too, I always use brass) and it is a non-issue.  The only time I have have an issue is with EXTREME bends....like almost wrapping the second string around the neck bending!!! :laughing8:

 

[Orpheo]

I personally love Kahlers.  I just put one on my BlackKorina/Burl Maple soloist.  This is my 3rd kahler! 

Personally I hate the floyds.  I do however use a floyd locking nut instead of the kahler...I just think it is a better unit.  I have a bunch of routing templates if you decide to go that route...HA>>>with a kahler

what makes for you, kahler better than floyd rose? don't you have the problem that when you bend, the string goes flat?

Better feel and adjustability with the kahler.  Also...since it is a fixed system and not a float like the floyd...make a better resting spot for HEAVY palm muting.  I have been playing a kahler for 20+ years...so I may be partial.

As far as the string going flat...I have never really had a problem.  Correct spring tension, saddle lube (the metal type helps too, I always use brass) and it is a non-issue.  The only time I have have an issue is with EXTREME bends....like almost wrapping the second string around the neck bending!!! :laughing8:

I'm sorry to bug you with my questions, but there's no one around who has experience with kahlers...

you say you use brass. have you ever used steel cams+saddles, and if so, why did you change back to brass?was it because of the sound, or the (in)durability?

 

[dmraco]

sound.  Brass is warmer.  Their website has a nice description of the differences but I have always found brass to have the best combo of tone, substain, harmonics, and warmth.

No problem with the questions.

The one thing I do not know much about is the hybrid systems.  I have always stuck to the original model.  I recently picked up an old peavey guitar with a vintage kahler in MINT condition...$100 on ebay/

 

[Orpheo]

sound.  Brass is warmer.  Their website has a nice description of the differences but I have always found brass to have the best combo of tone, substain, harmonics, and warmth.

No problem with the questions.

The one thing I do not know much about is the hybrid systems.  I have always stuck to the original model.  I recently picked up an old peavey guitar with a vintage kahler in MINT condition...$100 on ebay/

thanks for the info I have 1 more issue though...

The reliability and durability of this tremolo. how likely do you think it is, that the trem needs new parts or maybe even be replaced by another trem, after 20, 30, maybe even 50 or 60 years of use?

 

[GoDrex]

This is irrelevant to your needs, but I had a Carvin V220 with a Kahler. First day I had it, played it for about 5 to 10 minutes and pulled up on the bar. The little claw thing that held the high e-string broke off. The metal just broke. I had to send the whole thing back to Carvin. No Kahlers for me after that. That guitar didn't work out for me. :laughing7:

 

[dmraco]

sound.  Brass is warmer.  Their website has a nice description of the differences but I have always found brass to have the best combo of tone, substain, harmonics, and warmth.

No problem with the questions.

The one thing I do not know much about is the hybrid systems.  I have always stuck to the original model.  I recently picked up an old peavey guitar with a vintage kahler in MINT condition...$100 on ebay/

thanks for the info I have 1 more issue though...

The reliability and durability of this tremolo. how likely do you think it is, that the trem needs new parts or maybe even be replaced by another trem, after 20, 30, maybe even 50 or 60 years of use?

I have a Charvel with a Kahler from the 80s...all original...perfect shape...and it take the abuse too.  Kahler is back in business (for how long I do not know) so parts are not a problem, however I have never needed them.  I do not know how anything will work out for 50-60 years.  your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Orpheo]

This is irrelevant to your needs, but I had a Carvin V220 with a Kahler. First day I had it, played it for about 5 to 10 minutes and pulled up on the bar. The little claw thing that held the high e-string broke off. The metal just broke. I had to send the whole thing back to Carvin. No Kahlers for me after that. That guitar didn't work out for me. :laughing7:

I feel bad for you man, every time you seem to have a great guitar, in potential, but it always turns out to be a lemon (but after tweaking or being worked at, being a nice axe). but you must have had guarantee or something, that warrants this kind of faults!

but I had an email from kahler. my issues are set to rest now.

the 2xxx series: cold rolled steel, thus, a lot more durable
the 7xxx series: die cast steel. thus, less durable.

the majority of old kahlers were of the latter version, though they have the 2xxx name.

I really think it'd be a good thing for me

 

[dmraco]

2xxx sreies are about twice the price...and worth it.

 

[DocNrock]

No comment.  :laughing7: :headbang1:

 

[Orpheo]

No comment.   :laughing7: :headbang1:

no, please comment. I know you're a floyd-fan, but what if you want to have a trem on a guitar which never had a tremolo cavity to begin with? would you forget about the trem, or go kahler anyway?

 

[dmraco]

Trem cav or not...I still go with a Kahler...

No sense in debating this....It is like a Ford vs. Chevy thing.

this guy does a 4 part series on the floyd vs Kahler and lists many of the topics you have been discussing.  In the End there is a flight nod to the floyd.  My suggestion is go out and play a Kahler equiped guitar...with a good 2xxx series.  then play one with a floyd.  They feel completely different.  Sound and performance differences are minor and you have noted can be effected by the metals used in the Kahlers
.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy1eiMZ5nUk[/youtube]

 

[m4rk0]

Kahler looks way bulkier to me than Floyd Rose!
I do have a Kahler (spyder?) on one of my guitars and do like that one.
But I must have over 10 Floyd roses and love them all!