To go kahler, or not to go kahler, thats the question

[GoDrex]

Well halfway into the second video FR wins for me. The fact that doing bends knocks it out of tune kills it for me. I certainly don't want to solder the ends. It would make more sense to use Fender Super Bullets, even though I don't care for those strings since they seem to lose their nickel plating on the plain strings very quickly for me.

OK watching a little further he gives 2 stars to the Kahler for it's feel. I don't this this is a fair point because that is personal preference. I actually prefer a trem to not feel so loose. It makes it easier to do more subtle movements.

About breakage - the guy doesn't mention super bullet type strings so - he looses one point!!  :laughing7:

 

[dmraco]

Well halfway into the second video FR wins for me. The fact that doing bends knocks it out of tune kills it for me.

this is somthing that amazes me.  I went down last night on my three Kahler equipped guitars and tried to make mine go out of tune with bends...nothing...no issues as all.  I have found that curving the end of the string by hand near the ball when installing eliminated this problem.

The FEEL you suggest is a good point.  They both feel completely different.  That is why I suggested trying them both out.  A Whammy VIRGIN can make a choice on what they like the feel of best.  If you grew up in the 80s playing guitar, you likely were to have had either a floyd or kahler...and stuck with it thru the years.

I have had several guitars later in life with floyds and nver could get used to the feel and operation.  Having said that, there is nothing wrong with their design or performance.

 

[Orpheo]

I've read about the bend-issue too, but kahlers are for me nicer looking and nicer build units. the bending issue can be solved with smooth stringends. with some guitars, I solder the ends down anyway, or I'll use some kind of shrinktube for the end of the strings. I kind-off HATE floyds because of the whobble, they dont feel that solid to me, issues with stringspacing, issues with intonation, I hate the fact that I have to cut my strings for the floyd. kahlers don't suck as much tone, I noticed that earlier today with a kahler-giutar which had a tune o matic, once in its lifetime. it made it more 'chimey', tighter, punchier... me like!

the biggest problem is my girlfriend though. she thinks its expensive, but the biggest issue: you cut away my favorite part of the guitar, of ANY guitar but that's a problem that can be overcome. cut it away, starting at the bridgeside, then at the stoptail side, then cut under the part that goes 'under' the strings, save that part, and glue it in place with wenge spacers if needed when you want to get rid of the kahler.

its as simple as making brownies.


oh uhm... you guys say 'as taking candy from a kid' right?

 

[DocNrock]

No comment.   :laughing7: :headbang1:

no, please comment. I know you're a floyd-fan, but what if you want to have a trem on a guitar which never had a tremolo cavity to begin with? would you forget about the trem, or go kahler anyway?

As Dmraco said, it is all about personal preference.  In the early 90's, I had a guitar with a Kahler and one with a Floyd.  The one with the Kahler was relegated to backup duties.  I personally find the Floyd to be more versatile.  I haven't had any problems with wobble or intonation issues.  The reversibility thing that you bring up is true. 

Actually, I did build a hardtail last year and ultimately decided it needed a Floyd.  I took it to a local luthier who did the routing and then I dropped in the Floyd. 

 

[dmraco]

funny...I am now building another hardtail!  With 3 guitars with Kahlers, one wilkie, and one hardtail Tele I need another hardtail.  i have been playing alot more Zeppelin and songs with alternate tunings and locking nuts are a PIA when using alternate tunings.

 

[Orpheo]

No comment.   :laughing7: :headbang1:

no, please comment. I know you're a floyd-fan, but what if you want to have a trem on a guitar which never had a tremolo cavity to begin with? would you forget about the trem, or go kahler anyway?

As Dmraco said, it is all about personal preference.  In the early 90's, I had a guitar with a Kahler and one with a Floyd.  The one with the Kahler was relegated to backup duties.  I personally find the Floyd to be more versatile.  I haven't had any problems with wobble or intonation issues.  The reversibility thing that you bring up is true. 

Actually, I did build a hardtail last year and ultimately decided it needed a Floyd.  I took it to a local luthier who did the routing and then I dropped in the Floyd. 

why is the floyd more versatile? they're both a trem, or is the 'piezo in floyd' an issue? well... I dont want to have a piezo, cause I don't like them

 

[DocNrock]

No comment.   :laughing7: :headbang1:

no, please comment. I know you're a floyd-fan, but what if you want to have a trem on a guitar which never had a tremolo cavity to begin with? would you forget about the trem, or go kahler anyway?

As Dmraco said, it is all about personal preference.  In the early 90's, I had a guitar with a Kahler and one with a Floyd.  The one with the Kahler was relegated to backup duties.  I personally find the Floyd to be more versatile.  I haven't had any problems with wobble or intonation issues.  The reversibility thing that you bring up is true. 

Actually, I did build a hardtail last year and ultimately decided it needed a Floyd.  I took it to a local luthier who did the routing and then I dropped in the Floyd. 

why is the floyd more versatile? they're both a trem, or is the 'piezo in floyd' an issue? well... I dont want to have a piezo, cause I don't like them

I'm not a piezo guy, either.  I feel the dive bombing and pull up range is greater with a Floyd than with a Kahler.

 

[Orpheo]

No comment.   :laughing7: :headbang1:

no, please comment. I know you're a floyd-fan, but what if you want to have a trem on a guitar which never had a tremolo cavity to begin with? would you forget about the trem, or go kahler anyway?

As Dmraco said, it is all about personal preference.  In the early 90's, I had a guitar with a Kahler and one with a Floyd.  The one with the Kahler was relegated to backup duties.  I personally find the Floyd to be more versatile.  I haven't had any problems with wobble or intonation issues.  The reversibility thing that you bring up is true. 

Actually, I did build a hardtail last year and ultimately decided it needed a Floyd.  I took it to a local luthier who did the routing and then I dropped in the Floyd. 

why is the floyd more versatile? they're both a trem, or is the 'piezo in floyd' an issue? well... I dont want to have a piezo, cause I don't like them

I'm not a piezo guy, either.  I feel the dive bombing and pull up range is greater with a Floyd than with a Kahler.

well, its a bit bigger perhaps, but not much bigge I believe; it also depends, with the floyd, on how much you rout away, and with a kahler, thats not an issue. but ok, its a bit less, but still more than with a vintage trem.

that, combined with the wide range of setup options, the fact that you dont have to cut so much wood away, the sleek look (imho), the fact that there are no blades to wear out, the sustain, the tone (more chime, tightness, punch and growl than floyd...imho, again), make it that the kahler is for me, more a winner.

with a floyd, you've got to cut the strings. with a kahler, you've got to lube the strings. both, you need to do something with the strings, but with a kahler, its less neccasary than with the floyd. lets say, I break a string with the kahler. twist and lock, new string, done. if i need to lube it, that can happen later, if the cam isn't lubed well enough or something. with a floyd, its a nightmare.

 

[DocNrock]

No comment.   :laughing7: :headbang1:

no, please comment. I know you're a floyd-fan, but what if you want to have a trem on a guitar which never had a tremolo cavity to begin with? would you forget about the trem, or go kahler anyway?

As Dmraco said, it is all about personal preference.  In the early 90's, I had a guitar with a Kahler and one with a Floyd.  The one with the Kahler was relegated to backup duties.  I personally find the Floyd to be more versatile.  I haven't had any problems with wobble or intonation issues.  The reversibility thing that you bring up is true. 

Actually, I did build a hardtail last year and ultimately decided it needed a Floyd.  I took it to a local luthier who did the routing and then I dropped in the Floyd. 

why is the floyd more versatile? they're both a trem, or is the 'piezo in floyd' an issue? well... I dont want to have a piezo, cause I don't like them

I'm not a piezo guy, either.  I feel the dive bombing and pull up range is greater with a Floyd than with a Kahler.

well, its a bit bigger perhaps, but not much bigge I believe; it also depends, with the floyd, on how much you rout away, and with a kahler, thats not an issue. but ok, its a bit less, but still more than with a vintage trem.

that, combined with the wide range of setup options, the fact that you dont have to cut so much wood away, the sleek look (imho), the fact that there are no blades to wear out, the sustain, the tone (more chime, tightness, punch and growl than floyd...imho, again), make it that the kahler is for me, more a winner.

with a floyd, you've got to cut the strings. with a kahler, you've got to lube the strings. both, you need to do something with the strings, but with a kahler, its less neccasary than with the floyd. lets say, I break a string with the kahler. twist and lock, new string, done. if i need to lube it, that can happen later, if the cam isn't lubed well enough or something. with a floyd, its a nightmare.

If you like the Kahler, then go for it.  I've have no Floyd nightmares.  I've never had any blades "wear out."  One thing I have been doing with my Floyds recently, however, is installing a brass block.  They seem to fatten up the sound.

 

[Orpheo]

No comment.   :laughing7: :headbang1:

no, please comment. I know you're a floyd-fan, but what if you want to have a trem on a guitar which never had a tremolo cavity to begin with? would you forget about the trem, or go kahler anyway?

As Dmraco said, it is all about personal preference.  In the early 90's, I had a guitar with a Kahler and one with a Floyd.  The one with the Kahler was relegated to backup duties.  I personally find the Floyd to be more versatile.  I haven't had any problems with wobble or intonation issues.  The reversibility thing that you bring up is true. 

Actually, I did build a hardtail last year and ultimately decided it needed a Floyd.  I took it to a local luthier who did the routing and then I dropped in the Floyd. 

why is the floyd more versatile? they're both a trem, or is the 'piezo in floyd' an issue? well... I dont want to have a piezo, cause I don't like them

I'm not a piezo guy, either.  I feel the dive bombing and pull up range is greater with a Floyd than with a Kahler.

well, its a bit bigger perhaps, but not much bigge I believe; it also depends, with the floyd, on how much you rout away, and with a kahler, thats not an issue. but ok, its a bit less, but still more than with a vintage trem.

that, combined with the wide range of setup options, the fact that you dont have to cut so much wood away, the sleek look (imho), the fact that there are no blades to wear out, the sustain, the tone (more chime, tightness, punch and growl than floyd...imho, again), make it that the kahler is for me, more a winner.

with a floyd, you've got to cut the strings. with a kahler, you've got to lube the strings. both, you need to do something with the strings, but with a kahler, its less neccasary than with the floyd. lets say, I break a string with the kahler. twist and lock, new string, done. if i need to lube it, that can happen later, if the cam isn't lubed well enough or something. with a floyd, its a nightmare.

If you like the Kahler, then go for it.  I've have no Floyd nightmares.  I've never had any blades "wear out."  One thing I have been doing with my Floyds recently, however, is installing a brass block.  They seem to fatten up the sound.

well, i had an older floyd once, installed on a guitar I bought, almost 20 years now, and that one is very, very unstable because the knifes hve been worn down

 

[GoDrex]

actually if you break a string on a Floyd you may actually get a chance to loosen the string and re-lock it. My friend who had one used to do every so often. No such luck with other type of bridges

 

[Orpheo]

actually if you break a string on a Floyd you may actually get a chance to loosen the string and re-lock it. My friend who had one used to do every so often. No such luck with other type of bridges

thats true, but not 'on the fly'. besides, I change my strings quite often, especially the high E. so that argument, is for me a non-argument...

 

[DocNrock]

No comment.   :laughing7: :headbang1:

no, please comment. I know you're a floyd-fan, but what if you want to have a trem on a guitar which never had a tremolo cavity to begin with? would you forget about the trem, or go kahler anyway?

As Dmraco said, it is all about personal preference.  In the early 90's, I had a guitar with a Kahler and one with a Floyd.  The one with the Kahler was relegated to backup duties.  I personally find the Floyd to be more versatile.  I haven't had any problems with wobble or intonation issues.  The reversibility thing that you bring up is true. 

Actually, I did build a hardtail last year and ultimately decided it needed a Floyd.  I took it to a local luthier who did the routing and then I dropped in the Floyd. 

why is the floyd more versatile? they're both a trem, or is the 'piezo in floyd' an issue? well... I dont want to have a piezo, cause I don't like them

I'm not a piezo guy, either.  I feel the dive bombing and pull up range is greater with a Floyd than with a Kahler.

well, its a bit bigger perhaps, but not much bigge I believe; it also depends, with the floyd, on how much you rout away, and with a kahler, thats not an issue. but ok, its a bit less, but still more than with a vintage trem.

that, combined with the wide range of setup options, the fact that you dont have to cut so much wood away, the sleek look (imho), the fact that there are no blades to wear out, the sustain, the tone (more chime, tightness, punch and growl than floyd...imho, again), make it that the kahler is for me, more a winner.

with a floyd, you've got to cut the strings. with a kahler, you've got to lube the strings. both, you need to do something with the strings, but with a kahler, its less neccasary than with the floyd. lets say, I break a string with the kahler. twist and lock, new string, done. if i need to lube it, that can happen later, if the cam isn't lubed well enough or something. with a floyd, its a nightmare.

If you like the Kahler, then go for it.  I've have no Floyd nightmares.  I've never had any blades "wear out."  One thing I have been doing with my Floyds recently, however, is installing a brass block.  They seem to fatten up the sound.

well, i had an older floyd once, installed on a guitar I bought, almost 20 years now, and that one is very, very unstable because the knifes hve been worn down

To be fair, would a Kahler be stable after 20 years?

 

[Orpheo]

No comment.   :laughing7: :headbang1:

no, please comment. I know you're a floyd-fan, but what if you want to have a trem on a guitar which never had a tremolo cavity to begin with? would you forget about the trem, or go kahler anyway?

As Dmraco said, it is all about personal preference.  In the early 90's, I had a guitar with a Kahler and one with a Floyd.  The one with the Kahler was relegated to backup duties.  I personally find the Floyd to be more versatile.  I haven't had any problems with wobble or intonation issues.  The reversibility thing that you bring up is true. 

Actually, I did build a hardtail last year and ultimately decided it needed a Floyd.  I took it to a local luthier who did the routing and then I dropped in the Floyd. 

why is the floyd more versatile? they're both a trem, or is the 'piezo in floyd' an issue? well... I dont want to have a piezo, cause I don't like them

I'm not a piezo guy, either.  I feel the dive bombing and pull up range is greater with a Floyd than with a Kahler.

well, its a bit bigger perhaps, but not much bigge I believe; it also depends, with the floyd, on how much you rout away, and with a kahler, thats not an issue. but ok, its a bit less, but still more than with a vintage trem.

that, combined with the wide range of setup options, the fact that you dont have to cut so much wood away, the sleek look (imho), the fact that there are no blades to wear out, the sustain, the tone (more chime, tightness, punch and growl than floyd...imho, again), make it that the kahler is for me, more a winner.

with a floyd, you've got to cut the strings. with a kahler, you've got to lube the strings. both, you need to do something with the strings, but with a kahler, its less neccasary than with the floyd. lets say, I break a string with the kahler. twist and lock, new string, done. if i need to lube it, that can happen later, if the cam isn't lubed well enough or something. with a floyd, its a nightmare.

If you like the Kahler, then go for it.  I've have no Floyd nightmares.  I've never had any blades "wear out."  One thing I have been doing with my Floyds recently, however, is installing a brass block.  They seem to fatten up the sound.

well, i had an older floyd once, installed on a guitar I bought, almost 20 years now, and that one is very, very unstable because the knifes hve been worn down

To be fair, would a Kahler be stable after 20 years?

yeah, I think so. a friend of mine is a whammy abuser, and his kahler is still stable after 20 years. a kahler has no edges that go dull after heavy use for an extended period of time, just bearings, and bearings dont wear out, well, not with this kind of stuff that is. the pressure on the bearings is not 'high' enough so to say, so the bearings wont eat away their casing.

the only issue with kahlers is that the springs MIGHT get fatigued, and that can be solved with new springs.