Tell Us The Definitive Way to FInish With Tru/Tung Oil

[jackthehack]

"- will Mahogany colorered filler add any good effect on Black Korina as opposed to clear (Natural) filler?
is this what I need? http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4493"

Being greenish/waxy brown fillers/stains/dyes can go all "orangish" on black korina. I went nuts trying to get colors to match on a quilt/korina body a while back, sanding it all the way back several times and wouldn't recommend using any colored filler other than black on korina.

 

[dbw]

Marko... you can use regular paint thinner, no problem.  "Mahogany" grain filler is sort of pinkish but you can make it browner if you want by mixing in a little dark brown acrylic paint.

 

[jackthehack]

I'm confused, or can't find a link, Marko - what oil filler did you order? The link above is for Mahogany colored water based grain filler?

 

[m4rk0]

I did order the mahogany colored filler, but I do also have an unopened jar of Natural lying around..
so Mahogany will turn Korina orangy (rather than slightly ambered as I was hoping)?

Forgot to ask, there is no need to fill rosewood (as a top), correct?

 

[jackthehack]

My experience was with the StewMac brown water based filler going orangish; anything lighter than real dark brown seemed to go orangish on me. I'd recommend using dye/stain to add any color and then fill with clear. You can try the Mahogany filler, you can always sadn it back out if it turns on you....

Rosewood DOES have some graining/pores to it, if you're trying to get that "mirror" effect on the top finish you should fill it with clear before you start on the tung oil.

I have a hollow Strat with a Indian Rosewood laminate top on mahogany and just wound up putting a lot of coats of WATCO Danish oil rather than a "real" finish on it. That way the top looks natural and completely matches the fretboard. I stained the mahogany back as close as I could get to the Rosewood color before applying the WATCO Danish Oil. Eventually the Danish Oil dries out, so you have to re-apply it every few months. Don't know that you could replicate this finish on your body as you'd play hell trying to get the korina to match close, you'd have to go a very dark brown stain, darker than the rosewood probably.

 

[dbw]

Go find a piece of oak at a hardware store and experiment with your different grain fillers.  What finishes look good is 100% subjective so you got to see for yourself...

Edit:  Nice one jack.  I am thinking about an all-rosewood guitar... I would definitely leave the whole thing unfinished, insane as that sounds.

 

[jackthehack]

"I would definitely leave the whole thing unfinished, insane as that sounds"

Why should that sound insane?

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I have not been able to get through to Woodburst about their dyes, does anyone have somewhere else that they like?  But on that subject and this one, if I dye a maple topped guitar, and have filled the grain properly, will the pure tung oil cause any problems with the dyes?  Is it a bad idea to try the "dye, sand back, and dye with a lighter color" finishing procedure with pure tung oil?  I have seen the note to cut the first coat of pure tung oil with citrus solvent, presumably to get better penetration of the oil into the wood.  Once again, anyone have any experience with this and dyes?  Last question for a while, I hope, how many coats of pure tung oil is a reasonable number for a finished body?  I have seen four, but I was hoping that people that have tried it might share their experience.  Thanks again
Patrick

 

[jackthehack]

I have not been able to get through to Woodburst about their dyes, does anyone have somewhere else that they like?  But on that subject and this one, if I dye a maple topped guitar, and have filled the grain properly, will the pure tung oil cause any problems with the dyes?  Is it a bad idea to try the "dye, sand back, and dye with a lighter color" finishing procedure with pure tung oil?  I have seen the note to cut the first coat of pure tung oil with citrus solvent, presumably to get better penetration of the oil into the wood.  Once again, anyone have any experience with this and dyes?  Last question for a while, I hope, how many coats of pure tung oil is a reasonable number for a finished body?  I have seen four, but I was hoping that people that have tried it might share their experience.  Thanks again
Patrick

No problem with the Woodburst dyes at all; they are actual tung oil based; never seen/heard of an issue with tung oil over any sort of dye. Woodburst is like ReRanch.com, open intermittently, just keep trying and order one of everything you might want when you get through...

You probably need to do at least 8 coats of tung oil for a finish; apply coats as thin as you can...

 

[-CB-]

Grain Fill

The Stock

The Action

Here's some quick shots of an over/under of mine.  The finish there is Tru-Oil, and I like it on gun stocks.  There is some mild filling of the wood - I think I used an oil based filler from Home Depot... cant remember the brand it was nearly 20 years ago.  I DO remember having a @#$@#$ of a time not wanting to get the checkering fubar.  As it was I put Tru-Oil over it.  The grain is "better" than it was, ok for what is essentially a field grade Ruger.  Ruger not being known for its fine wood finishing... the old finish came off really easy with a scrubber (where my hands hadn't already worn it off).  I recall using a razor blade to scrape around the binding.  Thats about it.

If I can dig out the Kimber rifle... I'll grab some pix of that too.  There's a nice Winchester sitting in the rack too... maybe I can do em both, they're just a pain to get to right now.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

Thanks for the info about Woodburst, Jack.  I am still curious about cutting the pure Tung oil with a solvent, citrus or otherwise.  Is it really needed?  Thanks again.
Patrick

 

[jackthehack]

Thanks for the info about Woodburst, Jack.  I am still curious about cutting the pure Tung oil with a solvent, citrus or otherwise.  Is it really needed?  Thanks again.
Patrick

Some people swear by it; I just use straight Behlen's Tung OIl and real thin coats; seen examples where either method comes out great.

 

[-CB-]

cutting it for the first coat on raw wood is a good idea for better soak in

 

[jackthehack]

cutting it for the first coat on raw wood is a good idea for better soak in

That's true for alder/ash/lots of woods, but the issue with Korina is that the wood is so waxy in it's natural state that NOTHING soaks in very far, it's real easy to sand back even dye accidently leveling filler, so for me it's easier/simpler just to start with undiluted tung oil.

 

[-CB-]

well... two schools of thought there

one would be get what soak in ya can get... even if a little

the other is ... its so little, its not worth it.

I dunno... both seem to end up in the same place.  And the same is true of say.. maple, or other really tight woods.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

I have also read about treatments that are surface preps for dyes.  This seemed like it was something to clean and perhaps dissolve some of the natural oil so that the dyes would get to stick to the "woody" part and stick better.  I am guessing that it really doesn't make that big of a difference.  Otherwise someone would have posted something about it.  I believe that CB has posted using Naphtha to clean off the wood before starting with the finishing process, but not really for dissolving the natural oils away from the wood.

Now just so I have this straight in my head...  If that is possible...  If the Woodburst dyes are dissolved in tung oil, and you have a maple laminate top guitar body that has the grain properly filled (body wood, not maple,) wouldn't the maple have been treated with tung oil during the dyeing process?  That would imply that only the body wood (not the laminate part) would require the solvent cut pure tung oil. 

I know that I am really nitpicking about this, but I am still waiting for the dyes and have nothing better to do.
Patrick

 

[jackthehack]

"If the Woodburst dyes are dissolved in tung oil, and you have a maple laminate top guitar body that has the grain properly filled (body wood, not maple,) wouldn't the maple have been treated with tung oil during the dyeing process?  That would imply that only the body wood (not the laminate part) would require the solvent cut pure tung oil."

Woodburst dyes ingredients are "petroleum distillates, tung oil and pigments". They're different than working with water/alcohol dyes, more akin to using an oil based stain. They do not dry "hard" like pure tung oil will, so it's not like you've already started the tung oil finishing process by using them at all.

 

[-CB-]

an alcohol or acetone dye seems best when going right into the wood under oils

 

[m4rk0]

My experience was with the StewMac brown water based filler going orangish; anything lighter than real dark brown seemed to go orangish on me. I'd recommend using dye/stain to add any color and then fill with clear. You can try the Mahogany filler, you can always sadn it back out if it turns on you....

Rosewood DOES have some graining/pores to it, if you're trying to get that "mirror" effect on the top finish you should fill it with clear before you start on the tung oil.

I have a hollow Strat with a Indian Rosewood laminate top on mahogany and just wound up putting a lot of coats of WATCO Danish oil rather than a "real" finish on it. That way the top looks natural and completely matches the fretboard. I stained the mahogany back as close as I could get to the Rosewood color before applying the WATCO Danish Oil. Eventually the Danish Oil dries out, so you have to re-apply it every few months. Don't know that you could replicate this finish on your body as you'd play hell trying to get the korina to match close, you'd have to go a very dark brown stain, darker than the rosewood probably.

Yuck! the Behlen Mahogany Filler turned out almost pink on a piece of (test)wood... really ugly!!
so I am going for the neutral one, at least on the back.. I am a little afraid that the neutral one will dry up white in the pores of the rosewood...

 

[jackthehack]

Warned you! Don't know about what you bought at Woodcraft, but the StewMac clear water based filler dries so clear that I've used to to fix flaws in lacquer top coats before without any issues.