Stratocaster Tremelo options

[moobox]

Hello all. I'm about to order a body from Warmoth (actually finger's been hovering for a few weeks already) and one of the options is tremelo rout. I dont know what the heck to get there with stud installs etc. So what is the trem to get? I was thinking to get the standard American and then some places say the Wilkinson stuff is good. And sonemone said the the vintage 6 hole item is the way to go. So I am trying to get opinions here please.
Cheers - Ed

 

[line6man]

Get a two-point bridge. Six-points are worthless.
(IMO)

 

[bagman67]

If you want a vintage look, the 6-hole is the way to go.  But the mechanics of the thing are not as sound as a two-point trem such as a Wilkinson or American Standard Fender, or,if you must, a Floyd (which has other drawbacks, but at least it has two knife-edge pivots).

 

[Cagey]

The vintage 6 point vibrato bridges could be problem children quite easily, and were never known for their range or repeatability. So, I'd pass on those. Actually, just about all vintage bridges leave something to be desired. Fortunately, the state of the art keeps improving and unless you have an aesthetic you feel a need to maintain, there's rarely any good reason to use vintage hardware.

For vibrato bridges, the two-point knife-edge fulcrum style is the way to go. There are currently two main designs of those - the Floyd Rose and the Wilkinson. Outside of some unusual outliers, everybody either makes a version of those or something closely based on those designs, more often the Wilkinson.

I always recommend Wilkinson design parts, because the Floyd is just too much to deal with. It's forgivable, since it was really the first vibrato that worked reliably. But, to use a Floyd's full capability you have to wreck a neck by installing one of those locking nuts on it. Then you have to carry tools to change strings. Adjustment isn't easy, involving shims and such. Finally, the good ones are as pretty pricey. The Wilkinsons, on the other hand, are an improvement that does much the same thing with a simpler mechanism, fewer parts and no locking nut requirement, but you lose a small amount of the range a Floyd has. That's not generally a problem, as it's at the extremes that are rarely used in practice.

 

[Bruno]

For simplicity in installation, setting and use you can go to Gotoh 510TS or Hipshot tremolo (2p- tremolo).
Among the 6-screw tremolo, for me the best is Wilkinson VSVG

 

[Johnfv]

...Six-points are worthless.
(IMO)

Apparently many of us have been gigging and recording for decades with "worthless" Strats   I will now destroy all my Hendrix, Clapton, EJ and SRV albums.  :doh:

Seriously, everyone has their opinion. For example, for my use the Floyd (or any locking trem) is much more hassle than is needed. I "ruined" a nice guitar in the 80s putting a Kahler on it. For my relatively mild (down only) trem use the vintage 6 hole works great (I agree a 2 point system can be less hassle though). The more you wail on the trem, the more you need something more "modern" to ensure you don't have tuning problems. So the question is what do you intend to do with the trem?

 

[nexrex]

Have to agree with the cage-meister. The Wilkinson VS-100 is the way to go. All of those legacy designs are legacy for a reason. It really is the simplest and most easy to maintain trem around.

Combine that with a properly cut graphtech nut and locking tuners, and you won't even realize it's there.  :guitarplayer2:

 

[moobox]

I must say that am inclined toward the Gotoh Wilkinson VS100 (which I see at Warmoth site and also StewMac). Then again I have become aware of a Callaham which costs more (quite a bit) and someone was telling me they are pretty good stuff. In fact though, I have a MIM Stratocaster and the trem arm is never even in the thing. I dont use it and at one stage I was considering going hardtail with this assembly project but I rethought that and decided that I could always just block it up. Any thoughts on the Callaham stuff?

 

[moobox]

And another thing is do I need to pay much attention to the string spacing measurements? I mean, in relation to the width at the nut. Because I was thinking that I might get a 1 3/4 nut width (with fatback profile) to match the acoustics which I play mostly.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

This thread should be titled, "Cagey Bait." :icon_jokercolor:

 

[Cagey]

I must say that am inclined toward the Gotoh Wilkinson VS100 (which I see at Warmoth site and also StewMac). Then again I have become aware of a Callaham which costs more (quite a bit) and someone was telling me they are pretty good stuff. In fact though, I have a MIM Stratocaster and the trem arm is never even in the thing. I dont use it and at one stage I was considering going hardtail with this assembly project but I rethought that and decided that I could always just block it up. Any thoughts on the Callaham stuff?

Callaham makes good parts, but they do charge quite a premium for them for reasons that aren't clear. Plus, they like to use those cheap roll-form saddles that while nominally functional, are basically just crud magnets. I'm sure they know better, but there's a myth that's been around for a while that says that style saddle sounds better. You have to satisfy your market if you want their money, so naturally Callaham sources that part.

The VS100 uses cast/machined stainless steel saddles without all the nooks and crannies. They still have the dual height adjustment screws, so no loss there. They rest against a hardened steel baseplate, so no loss there. They have more mass so in theory, you should get more sustain. In reality, nobody knows. But, overall, it's just a cleaner setup.

The Fender AmStd bridge is essentially the same thing as the Wilkie, if you wanted to go that route. Also, Gotoh and Schaller each make one, and they're nice as well. The Schaller takes it one step further again by adding rollers to the saddles, but it's a tough bridge to find and you're probably only gonna get chrome if you're in the US.

As for spacing, the neck heel of a Fender Strat is 2 3/16" wide regardless of the nut width, so any bridge that'll get you close to 2 1/16" spacing, give or take 1/32" is going to work out fine.

 

[Cagey]

This thread should be titled, "Cagey Bait." :icon_jokercolor:

Hehe! What can I say? Bridges are important, and I've fought a lot of battles with them.

 

[moobox]

OK thanks aplenty and I think I'm sold on the VS100. Now, Warmoth have on their site the Gotoh Wilkinson VS100. Would that be the one? Becasue I'm getting the impression that there may be another brand out there (Wilkinson?) and trying to google and not finding. So if that is the case where would I source it? Cheers

 

[Cagey]

Gotoh is a licensed manufacturer of that part, and is pretty much the standard. Those are the ones I always buy, and I haven't been sorry. There are others, but their pedigree is questionable. For instance, you can get something that looks nearly identical from Guitar Fetish for $47, but it's unlikely to mount right. You may have to drill out the holes for the mounting bushings, stuff 'em, and redrill to match the centerlines. It's tough to say for certain, because they don't give you dimensions. The Schaller version I mentioned earlier is definitely different - it uses the Floyd centerline dimensions for the mounting bushing holes. On and on. So, buy the Gotoh. You'll know it'll work.

 

[moobox]

Thanks again folks and especially Cagey. Order going in tonight then.

 

[moobox]

I'm back with another question please. I'm ordering an unfinished standard Stratocaster body from Warmoth. Unfinished because I want to try my hand at that. One of the options is for them to install the studs for the tremolo. Is that quite a tricky process? Should I not do that myself? And if they do the installation for me, can I just apply finish over that?
Cheers - Ed

 

[bagman67]

At the price, you might as well let the pros do it for you.  If they eff it up, they eat it - and if you eff it up, you eat it.  If this is your first rodeo, might as well reduce risk wherever you can.

 

[Cagey]

It's not difficult, but it is possible to goof up. They're between a press-fit and interference-fit part, so it takes some effort to get the little rascals in. Ideally, you want to use a press of some sort - either an arbor press or a drill press - but you can just whack 'em in if you're careful. The problem with "whacking them in" is there's the risk of them going in slightly cocked if you don't hit them square enough, and also some risk of hitting the body if you're aim isn't true. If they go in slightly cocked, it's very difficult to straighten them out. If you whack the body, well, let your imagination be your guide. If you don't have a press, then for the $10 I'd unclench a bit and let them do it.

Either way, if you get some set screws of the right thread, you can have them installed and finish your little heart out and just remove the set screws when you're done. The bushings will be nice and clean internally.

I will say this, though. If this is your first Warmoth body, you may not be aware of what a great finish they can supply for the price. Unless you really can't get what you want out of them, I'd save up my beer cans and let them do the finish. It's superb. It's far superior to most of what you'll see on any music store's hangers. Also, it's not only the best finish you've ever seen, it's highly durable. For the $225 or so they charge, it's a deal and a half. If you want to try your hand at finishing for the first time, I'd recommend buying a lesser body from another source so you can find out what's involved. Finishing is not a trivial task. After your first go-round with that, you'll think $225 is one helluva bargain.

 

[bagman67]

I'd recommend buying a lesser body from another source so you can find out what's involved.

I concur, but with the caveat that stuff might not fit as well or be as cleanly executed on a less expensive body -- and that could yield entirely different frustrations unrelated to the rigors of getting a good finish -- which might push you toward the Warmoth body after all.



This body cost me ~$85 from a guy on ebay, and much swearing learning was involved as I approached finishing it.  I'd have been much more frustrated at twice the price.

This was $87 from a different body maker on ebay - and much learning was done here, too.

 

[Cagey]

I'd recommend buying a lesser body from another source so you can find out what's involved. 

I concur, but with the caveat that stuff might not fit as well or be as cleanly executed on a less expensive body -- and that could yield entirely different frustrations unrelated to the rigors of getting a good finish -- which might push you toward the Warmoth body after all.

That's also true. I probably should have said "used" rather than "lesser". Ebay/Craig's List is a great source parts if you're not in a hurry and can wait for the right deal to come along. Parts don't hold value worth spit, and even if they did you never know when somebody will post a desperation/liquidation sale. So, Warmoth bodies can be had that will have costs down where you might be willing to give up on them if the job is overwhelming.

Which was actually my original point. You can get new raw bodies from GFS for $50-$60 that are finish-ready. That's practically disposable. Yeah, some things may not fit, and it's made out of pallet-grade wood. But, you'll learn about finishing, which is going to cost you one helluva lot more in blood and treasure. Better to wreck something destined for a midsummer bonfire than something that could've/would've/should've.