Rack Gear?

[Superlizard]

Ok, here (finally) is my submission to the tone war.

To start, I will concide one point to Mr. Lizard ... Guitar Rig's "Plexi" model sounds nothing like a real JTM45.  However, I use Guitar Rig for its pristine clean, and high-gain tones which we already know he doesn't like.   :laughing7:

I decided to go back to a piece of "vintage" software ... Amplitube V1.  It's normally a little noisy for my liking (just like a real t00b amp), so I don't use it much.  Its the "modern" preamp model, with the gain set at about 1 o'clock, the "British" model EQ, with the bass at 6, mids at 8, treble at 5 and presence at 9.  The cabinet model is a vintage 4x12, close-miced with a condensor (which I do for real amps too ... I find the 57 a little too nasally).  I used headphones to get the tone you're about to hear, 'cause I'm still saving up to get new studio monitors.  It was recorded as one take ... just me noodling, with no digital trickery whatsoever.   The only FX is a tiny bit of reverb, which I would add to an amp recording as well.

Now, whether you actually like the tone is subjective, and therefore irrelevent to the spirit of this test.  I start with a Lenny Kravitz-esque riff, turn the guitar's volume down, and play it again, turn up and play it again.  The tone cleans up, and gets dirty again ... proving that software can exhibit these elusive dynamics.

Yes, the tone cleans up... but it sounds fake - cleaned up or dirty.

So I will concede one point - modelers will clean up using the volume knob on a guitar.

But everything else a t00b amp does dynamic-wise, the modeler does an Epic Fail in - it sounds fake and processed.

The whole point with using modelling software/hardware is versatillity.  I can go from a country twang, to mellow jazz, to classic rock crunch, to uber-metal with little more than the click of a footswitch.  I'd like to see you do that with your "t00b" amp!

Easy:

Clean - just amp
Classic Rock - OCD
Classic Hard Rock - Crunch Box
Metal - DIME Distortion

:icon_thumright:

 

[AndyG]

All right ... I give up ... there's no point in arguing with someone whose champange ears do not like the beer-budget modelers.

But I will  leave you with a final thought ....

I remember, as a  young assistant engineer, this exact same kind of tone snobbery when digital recorders first came out.  "Nothing sounds as good as 2" tape!!!".  And they're right, I love the sound of 2" tape as well.  However, the reality is that tens of thousands of records, and millions of dollars have been made as a result of DAW's.  Do plugins sound as good as a Pultec EQ, an 1167 compressor, or an LA2A?  Nope ... but they come damn close.

Tube amps aren't going away any time soon.  Neither are modelers.  Both WILL be used to make records in the future.  When the day comes that I can afford a room full of tube amps and cabinets, an a collection of microphones to record them with .... I'll go ahead and buy them.

Until then, I will happily use my modelers, and 99% of the people who listen won't know the difference, or even care.  They will simply have to decide if they like the music I make or not.

May you live happily ever after with your t00bs.

 

[Superlizard]

All right ... I give up ... there's no point in arguing with someone whose champange ears do not like the beer-budget modelers.

But I will  leave you with a final thought ....

I remember, as a  young assistant engineer, this exact same kind of tone snobbery when digital recorders first came out.  "Nothing sounds as good as 2" tape!!!".  And they're right, I love the sound of 2" tape as well.

Yes, yes they are right.  Tape saturation is the t!t$.

However, the reality is that tens of thousands of records, and millions of dollars have been made as a result of DAW's.  Do plugins sound as good as a Pultec EQ, an 1167 compressor, or an LA2A?  Nope ... but they come damn close.

A DAW and an amp modeler are two completely different pieces of equipment.  I have a DAW myself; which I use to record my t00b amps.

However, if the argument is, "tens of thousands of records, and millions of dollars have been made" in relation to amp modelers, (as well) money and record sales have nothing to do with amp tone.  But if all one cares about is selling records, then sure - ain't no thang with a modeler.

Tube amps aren't going away any time soon.  Neither are modelers.  Both WILL be used to make records in the future.  When the day comes that I can afford a room full of tube amps and cabinets, an a collection of microphones to record them with .... I'll go ahead and buy them.

Until then, I will happily use my modelers, and 99% of the people who listen won't know the difference, or even care.  They will simply have to decide if they like the music I make or not.

May you live happily ever after with your t00bs.

Here's a pic of some schweet glass - a GE labeled Mullard GZ34 rectifier made in the 4th week of November, 1968:

Come to the tone side, Luke.  :icon_thumright:

 

[mayfly]

you make me laugh SL - the signal doesn't even pass through that thing  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[Death by Uberschall]

you make me laugh SL - the signal doesn't even pass through that thing   :icon_jokercolor:

LOL, no it doesn't. But the effect it has on the power section is magical.  :icon_thumright:

 

[mayfly]

you make me laugh SL - the signal doesn't even pass through that thing   :icon_jokercolor:

LOL, no it doesn't. But the effect it has on the power section is magical.  :icon_thumright:

true, but i've never liked the sound of power supply sag.

...but i hear that the Chinese versions sag better  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Death by Uberschall]

I like a little sag. It's one of the reasons we like t00bs.

 

[Vol. Knob]

They both suck.  Play acoustic.  Technology is for talentless hacks.

 

[Superlizard]

LOL, no it doesn't. But the effect it has on the power section is magical.  :icon_thumright:

He's right, Mayfly... t00b rectification in many cases (but depending on the circuit) can add a certain "bounce" or "squish"
to your tone... e.g. gives the amp more touch-sensitivity and feel... adds to the "3D" effect on the tone.

(...which you should know considering you're an AC30 -o- phile.   :sign13

Diode rectification is typically a much "tighter" feel.

Tip:  Weber Copper Caps (solid state) are a cool t00b rectifier substitute to allow you to try different amounts of "sag".

...and, that pic is of a real Mullard... original Mullards are the next closest thing to God in tone, quality and longevity...  

... SO STOP #$#@$ AROUND AND GET SOME NOW!  :sign13:

 

[Volitions Advocate]

I don't care what anybody here says.

CB is the only amp tech I trust.  him and the 104 year old guy that repairs organs in town here.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

What the hell is Mayfly, Chopped Liver?

 

[Death by Uberschall]

What the hell is Mayfly, Chopped Liver?

I was thinking "salsa"  :icon_jokercolor:

 

[dbw]

The rhythm track is buried, so it's nigh impossible to hear any detail on that.

+1, I'm withholding judgement until I hear an actual A/B test.

 

[mayfly]

What the hell is Mayfly, Chopped Liver?

I was thinking "salsa"  :icon_jokercolor:

I'm thinking more "bacon cheeseburger"  :icon_biggrin:

I've played around with sag with my fenders.  I didn't like the effect, because I didn't like the change of tone when the power supply starts to drop.  You get a kind of MMMMMEEEEEEEEUUUUUUWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRR  sound when holding a chord at full volume that I didn't enjoy.  But taste is taste - it obviously works for some.

Oh and AC30s are not really susceptible to power supply sag - because although they run class AB, the cathode bias and the large amount of current that conducts through the tubes causes the power supply to be running almost the same at idle as it does when flat out.  I've measured up to 200mA at idle in some AC30 examples, and nearly the same when the amp was run at full power.  Because of this there is not much noticeable sag.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

AC30's run ClassA, not AB.  :icon_thumright:

 

[mayfly]

AC30's run ClassA, not AB.  :icon_thumright:

This is a myth - often repeated, but incorrect.  The EL84s bias off for part of the cycle - this makes the amp class AB.

A quad of EL84s run class A with cathode bias are only good for a total of 20 watts at maximum plate dissipation.  This information is from "Valves for audio frequency Amplifiers" published by the Philips Technical Library in 1954.  From the same book, you can achieve 30W in class AB with cathode bias, and as much as 50W from a quad if you run class AB with fixed bias.  This echos my own experience with this tube.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

OH hell, picked the wrong recording, picked the wrong class of operation, I'm going take a nap!!!  :doh:

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

This is a myth - often repeated, but incorrect.  The EL84s bias off for part of the cycle - this makes the amp class AB.

A quad of EL84s run class A with cathode bias are only good for a total of 20 watts at maximum plate dissipation.  This information is from "Valves for audio frequency Amplifiers" published by the Philips Technical Library in 1954.  From the same book, you can achieve 30W in class AB with cathode bias, and as much as 50W from a quad if you run class AB with fixed bias.  This echos my own experience with this tube.

Volitions Advocate, do you wish to recant your statement?

 

[stubhead]

Recant your testimony, or ve vill DENOUNCE you before zee RULING COUNCIL!!!

Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck - good luckski findink guitar string IN SIBERIA, numchucks! :evil4: :evil4: :evil4:




:cool01:

 

[kboman]

Recount your testimony, or ve vill DENOUNCE you before zee RULING COUNCIL!!!

Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck - good luckski findink guitar string IN SIBERIA, numchucks! :evil4: :evil4: :evil4:




:cool01:

You know, I'm not a very frequent poster and sometimes on this board I enter a kind of "lull" when people go on about Strats, "football" or similar nonsense and I kind of loose interest - but then, someone posts something like this and my faith is fully restored! Thank you!

Carry on everyone, end of message