Question about action with larger guage strings

[DocNrock]

When going in string guage from 9s to, say 13s, once the neck is adjusted for the significant difference in tension, how does the action compare?  Does the action need to be higher with the larger strings to prevent buzz, or does the higher tension keem them from buzzing.  I'm toying with the idea of setting up a Warmoth Strat with 13s, but am used to using 9s and 10s.

 

[jimh]

I'd be less worried about the action, and more worried about the blisters you're gonna get switching straight from 9's to 13's

Ouch!

 

[dbw]

Yup, you're gonna be hurting.  :icon_thumright:  It's good for ya.  As for your question... you'll have to get it set up again, but after it's set up, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get about the same action as on your nines.  You might like slightly higher action with heavier strings.... I do... I find they're a bit buzzier.

Also, you should realize that you can't necessarily go back and forth... not only will it need a setup, but it will probably need nut work to let the strings fit, which means you might end up needing a new nut to go back to nines!

My advice is try elevens.  You can always switch back, and if you like them, you can move up to 12s and 13s... and beyond... (Dick Dale played 16s)

 

[dudesweet157]

You can actually get lower action with strings of a higher gauge because they don't move as much when you pick them.  However, unless you're playing strictly jazz, I wouldn't recommend it.  The higher gauge plus lower action make string bending a joke.

 

[jimh]

You can actually get lower action with strings of a higher gauge because they don't move as much when you pick them.  However, unless you're playing strictly jazz, I wouldn't recommend it.  The higher gauge plus lower action make string bending a joke.

Not necessarily.  Never had any personal experience with 13's, but I once read a review in Guitarist magazine (UK) of the Jackson PC1 (Phil Collen - Def Leppard sig model) and that alledgedly came shipped straight out of the box with with 13's cos thats what he uses.  Phil Collen shreds and bends like a demon, albeit a slightly cheesy pop-rock demon..

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's just what I read somewhere once.    ccasion14:

I went to 11's on my Gibson ES137 a while back having been used to 9's and 10's for years.  I was lucky that I did'nt need to do too much work to the guitar in terms of action or setup, but I definitely felt the difference.  The tone was much 'fatter' though.  I liked it stuck with 'em on there.  Still use 10's on my Strat and LP.

I tend to agree with dbw and 'build up' slowly and see how it goes.

 

[dudesweet157]

Sorry for the confusion Jimh, I DO like higher gauge strings (11's on the 25.5" scales and 12's on the 24.75" scales).  They do give you a bigger, less plinky sound.  However, I also have fairly high action which makes bending them LOADS easier.  It allows you to bend underneath the other strings instead of trying to push all of them up.

-Rose

 

[jimh]

All good my friend. 
Like I said, never had any experience, and I'm only going by what I read......

 

[ZackPomerleau]

Hey DudeSweet, Stevie used .13's,. then remember, Dick Dale uses .16's.

 

[DocNrock]

Thanks for all the replies.  The reason I'm toying with the 13s is just to try out the fat sound.  I have no disillusions about bending.  I'm thinking of this more as a strictly riff/rhythm guitar.  I might even try it for my scale exercises.  I've got a few other guitars with 9s and one with 10s to bend and whammy.

 

[bpmorton777]

when I put a heavier gauge string on my strat (I use 9's) the floating bridge stuck way up. might need to put more springs in the trem if you have a floater.  I didnt like the feel and switched back the next day.  :laughing7:

Brian

 

[DocNrock]

when I put a heavier gauge string on my strat (I use 9's) the floating bridge stuck way up. might need to put more springs in the trem if you have a floater.  I didnt like the feel and switched back the next day.  :laughing7:

Brian

That brings up another question.  I didn't plan a floating trem for that very reason.  I was going go hardtail, but ultimately decided on a 6 hole vintage Strat trem, with which I have little experience.  The design looked to me like something that wouldn't be so finicky with heavy guage strings.

 

[onedrop]

Go for it! Few things will improve your tone as much as heavier strings, except maybe a few beers and a joint!

I don't think you'll have an issue with the vintage strat trem. At worst you'll have to add in another spring.

I think I had all 5 springs in when I played 13s, but never any issue with it lifting up or anything.

I found 13s were as high as I could go and still do all the bluesy bendy stuff, then went back to 12s and now 11s (what a wimp, eh?)
Dick Dale must have cowhide for hands.

 

[Volitions Advocate]

I dont know the exact guage I use for my detuning stuff but I use the Ernie Ball "not even slinky" set.  Its pretty heavy.  But when I use that I only tune up to D or even C# (for stuff like Chevelle or A Perfect Circle)
My band mate always laughs at me and teases me about putting railroad tracks on my guitar.

 

[-CB-]

For years I played .009's and was more or less happy.  Then Kenny "Blue" Ray was telling me about using .011's.  I tried 'em - and my GAWD - bridge cables.  So he said, try some .010's and then eventually work your way up.  This is a man who bend .011's like you or I would bend .008s.

Its all a matter of conditioning I suppose.

But, there is a big tone difference between .009s and .011s.  Night and day.  The 11's are not only a lot louder, but thicker toned, beefier, but not dull.  Just "more", especially the low end.

Ever think that Leo designed the Tele and Strat pickup in an age where wound 4th strings were "normal"??  Ever consider that the tones he got, and signal to noise ratio he got was a LOT different from what we get today playing .009s into a Strat?

Makes ya wanna go ... hmmmmm.

 

[bpmorton777]

measure the signal to noise ration on a guitar once with the thick strings and once with the thin ones and then tell me it's not voodoo. None of the guitar tone stuff people talk about ever gets measured scientificly so I cant really say one way or the other......Ive used 9's, 10's and 11's and could not tell if there was a volume or tonal difference between them. And people tend to switch out their old flat sounding strings with new ones...just so happens to be that the new ones were thiker gauge.....new strings = better tone.

Brian

 

[-CB-]

I dunno... there's a lot more metal in fatter strings. 

 

[OzziePete]

Ever think that Leo designed the Tele and Strat pickup in an age where wound 4th strings were "normal"??  Ever consider that the tones he got, and signal to noise ratio he got was a LOT different from what we get today playing .009s into a Strat?

Makes ya wanna go ... hmmmmm.

Yes, I had that thought years ago when SRV came onto the scene and was quoted as using 12s or 13s.

The guitars that Leo designed, and the pickups that went in them, were for the days when that sort of gauge was standard.

If you have a guitar with an old pickup -  or one that's a vintage replica, it's worth the effort to restring at a higher gauge and hear how it sounds.

I have an old L series Tele bridge pickup in a Warmoth Esquire. Using 12  -52 gauge makes the pickup more boomy, but for comfort's sake I string it with standard 10 -46 gauge. I use that guitar for mainly rhythm and chord work so it's more convenient to have the lighter gauge.

I restrung a 83 retro Strat in a heavier gauge and it sounded very nicely like SRV. It's less fun on standard 10 -46 strings. When I do have to use the Strat I prefer to use SRV type string gauge even though my finger tips are a mess afterwards and my 1st and 2nd nuckle joints on my left hand fingers ache for a day or two after!

In fact, thinking back on it, the love of the sound I got out of the Strat but the pain I got from playing with that setup, led me eventually to Warmoth. One of the ways to relieve the discomfort is to use a guitar with a smaller scale neck, and Warmoth having the 24.75" conversion neck, fits the bill perfectly.

Having built the Esquire around the L series pickup, it's only a question of finances stopping me from transferring all the Fender hardware and pickups off the Strat and onto a Warmoth body and neck! ONE of these days........ :sad1:

 

[GoDrex]

I'm sure thicker strings sound better and are more macho, but nearly all of my favorite players use(d) 9's so I see no reason to torture myself.

Also a lot of guys that use heavier strings also tune down a bit - Like SRV tuned down a half step. I'm sure it makes a little bit of a difference. I think Hendrix used 10's or 11's and he tuned down to Eb too.

 

[DiMitriR33]

i like heavier strings, i feel i get better tunning stability and i tend to over bend .009's. they are louder, and the pickups will have more output. lower action is possible. light strings do sound thin to my ears, and it has been argued here that they have more upper harmonics (the thin sound) which to some can be considered an advantage. you may want to back off your pickup with .013's they can sound too boomy otherwise.

 

[dbw]

I think they sound good... I can't imagine they DON'T affect tone.  I can, however, tell you that the heavy strings DEFINITELY sustain longer and stay in tune better.

Edit:  I believe Hendix used 9s and tuned to Eb, so he played 'em floppy.  Of course he tuned up between every f*cking song because of it.  Obviously his tone is great but hey... maybe he would have sounded even better with 10s.  He played floppy strings so he could do those insane bends, like in Manic Depression...