Overachieving VIP Hollowbody

[Shaun M]

Reading through this, I think you have a cool idea but none of the details are quite correct.

Jazzmaster pickups are wildly different from P90s like kale vs ice cream. 1Meg pots will not change that.

24 frets will wildly change the sound of the neck pickup because the position of the pickup matters a lot for the tone.

Piezos are good enough as an acoustic sound and can get better with IRs but arent 100% right. So great in a pinch live but not perfect.

The middle rail pickup wont sound like a strat as much as you would want it to.

The bigsby has its own issues so do some research about what you are getting into with that. The Towner bar is great but the Bigsby already has issues it wont fix. Also you can get a bigsby and expect to be Van Halen. Its for subtle vibrato only.

I have never seen a need to put midi on a guitar. Thats what keyboards are for.

24 frets would really change the sound that much? I mean I could just get 22 then. That would add more space and make everything less busy too. After all this I’ll probably just put 500k pots in them because they’ll sound good and there’s no risk.
I was thinking of possibly putting the piezo through an acoustic amp or something. It isn’t just for acoustic sounds it’s also for another sound.

Would adding the middle rail hurt at all though? I kind of see it as just adding more options. And i was thinking I could split it as well as the rail pickups on the p-rails to get that Strat sound.

What issues are there with a bigsby? I’ve heard about changing strings but that isn’t much of an issue. And I heard that as long as you set up the bigsby correctly there won’t be tuning issues.

Midi would be used for synths or something. Wouldn’t hurt to add it but we’ll see.

 

[TBurst Std]

My advice is CALM your jets and DO NOT order anything!

Already mentioned, but P90s sound ABOSLUTELY nothing like Jazzmaster pickups. Keep in mind the SD PRails do a poor imitation of either a HB, SC or P90. A want-to-be jack of all trades, master of none. Tried some and could not pull them out fast enough.

Piezo: Keep in mind that you want NOT only a dedicated volume and a way to mix it, but ALSO dedicated tone controls for the piezo ALONE. Ideally you want a different output as well as you will want to use a different amplification system (either an acoustic amp or something with an acoustic IR. I can talk for days on this topic as I have owned and played years of numerous gigs with an electric guitar with a piezo. Personally I ran 2 lines out, both to my Fractal unit which can process 2 entirely differently signals simultaneously. A high dollar solution. Otherwise, its 2 lines out: 1 for the mag side to a guitar amp; another line out for the piezo to an acoustic amp. Even then, its a bad substitute for a true acoustic with either a mic or a SBT (UST is a last resort).

As noted, a 24 fret pup move will definitely affect your neck pup's tone.

I would suggest this.
Write down the top 5 tones you want to achieve. If at all possible, list the band and song.
Now prioritize this from 1 - 5. Then share it back here.
As possible, note each one why you NEED that tone? Are you playing in a band? live? recording? getting paid?

Again, CALM your jets and DO NOT order anything. You are on the verge of spending a chunk of change that most likely will not accomplish your goals.

 

[TBurst Std]

24 frets would really change the sound that much? I mean I could just get 22 then. That would add more space and make everything less busy too. After all this I’ll probably just put 500k pots in them because they’ll sound good and there’s no risk.
I was thinking of possibly putting the piezo through an acoustic amp or something. It isn’t just for acoustic sounds it’s also for another sound.

Would adding the middle rail hurt at all though? I kind of see it as just adding more options. And i was thinking I could split it as well as the rail pickups on the p-rails to get that Strat sound.

What issues are there with a bigsby? I’ve heard about changing strings but that isn’t much of an issue. And I heard that as long as you set up the bigsby correctly there won’t be tuning issues.

Midi would be used for synths or something. Wouldn’t hurt to add it but we’ll see.

Oh I forgot about the Bigsby. Keep in mind I am a Bigsby fan (have 5 guitars with them). They are only used subtlly. And they aren't cheap. For a no mod try out, get the Duesenberg Les Trem II. Cheaper and totally reversable. Oh by the way, piezos do NOT like a vibrato bridge/tailpiece that well when used. You get some funky or no sounds (either its interpetation of a string dragging back and forth across it's element (Bigsby style) or loosing contact with the element (Fender style)).

And yes, moving a neck pup 2 frets does change the sound. You have removed it from its 24th fret harmonic location (close enough for govt work). Why do you think you can't tune a strat effectively using harmonics when on the neck pup?

If you put a piezo in it, you are going to find out you have run out of control cavity room for a midi as well.

Do NOT order anything!

And loose the 1 meg pots. Those were to compensate for the mud wiring section on one side of the JM's multi-tone paths mechanism.

 

[supertruper1988]

24 frets would really change the sound that much? I mean I could just get 22 then. That would add more space and make everything less busy too. After all this I’ll probably just put 500k pots in them because they’ll sound good and there’s no risk.
I was thinking of possibly putting the piezo through an acoustic amp or something. It isn’t just for acoustic sounds it’s also for another sound.

Would adding the middle rail hurt at all though? I kind of see it as just adding more options. And i was thinking I could split it as well as the rail pickups on the p-rails to get that Strat sound.

What issues are there with a bigsby? I’ve heard about changing strings but that isn’t much of an issue. And I heard that as long as you set up the bigsby correctly there won’t be tuning issues.

Midi would be used for synths or something. Wouldn’t hurt to add it but we’ll see.

You should definitely educate yourself some more before ordering. I had the "perfect" guitar built that did most of what you are after here and, spoiler alert, it was not perfect.

 

[Spud]

Another tip , you check your blood sugar, and you check it often.

 

[Rick]

That's an interesting question .... whose your favorite tone? I don't know if I could pick three, let's see ... currently

Mark Speer from Khurangbin
Jack White from Jack White
Keith Richards from you know
Neil Young from whenever
Rev Horton Heat ....
I could keep going
Horton uses a bibsby

and Mayfly from Cornflower Blue!

Wait I just realized that this was easy!

 

[Shaun M]

I’m going to preface that I’m certainly not ordering anything anytime soon. Most likely not even this year. Checked my blood pressure and it came back as “drummer”.. I think the machines off

Anyway I mostly was posting this thread in general because I’ve spent probably more time than I should’ve planning out the guitar. To me it seemed “perfect” and I was like there ain’t no way so instead of calling up my guitar guy or my “sweet water representative” I thought I would be better to be yelled at on warmoths form. Mission accomplished!

I could probably do without the bigsby then. I certainly wasn’t going crazy for it.
Honestly same with the piezo I was kind of getting sick and tired of dealing with broken acoustic (I’ve bought about 3 and each one has been broken in some way)

Would you guys suggest anything else? If I keep the bigsby I’ll probably get rid of the piezo or vice versa.

P.S the reason I’m all in on versatility is because half the people I play with are metal heads with the wildest heaviest distortion and the other half is a mix of every genre.

 

[supertruper1988]

I’m going to preface that I’m certainly not ordering anything anytime soon. Most likely not even this year. Checked my blood pressure and it came back as “drummer”.. I think the machines off

Anyway I mostly was posting this thread in general because I’ve spent probably more time than I should’ve planning out the guitar. To me it seemed “perfect” and I was like there ain’t no way so instead of calling up my guitar guy or my “sweet water representative” I thought I would be better to be yelled at on warmoths form. Mission accomplished!

I could probably do without the bigsby then. I certainly wasn’t going crazy for it.
Honestly same with the piezo I was kind of getting sick and tired of dealing with broken acoustic (I’ve bought about 3 and each one has been broken in some way)

Would you guys suggest anything else? If I keep the bigsby I’ll probably get rid of the piezo or vice versa.

P.S the reason I’m all in on versatility is because half the people I play with are metal heads with the wildest heaviest distortion and the other half is a mix of every genre.

So get 2 guitars?

 

[Rick]

Yelled at!? This is probably the most gentle goup of musicians you ever met. Seriously...

What guitar books do you have ... i found reading about guitars a good way to understand them and what can be done. People here got plenty of recommendations...

 

[Shaun M]

I didn’t mean I was getting yelled at haha I’m just saying I’d rather be told here then calling someone up cus this community is so nice haha.

Yelled at!? This is probably the most gentle goup of musicians you ever met. Seriously...

What guitar books do you have ... i found reading about guitars a good way to understand them and what can be done. People here got plenty of recommendations..

 

[Shaun M]

So get 2 guitars?

Well I’d rather have one really cool guitar than two guitars. Also I’d rather build my own perfect guitar with all the specs I want.

 

[supertruper1988]

Well I’d rather have one really cool guitar than two guitars. Also I’d rather build my own perfect guitar with all the specs I want.

I would never play live anywhere without a second guitar as a backup. Some of the specs you have listed as once our directly conflicting with one another. You can get close enough with a humbucker single humbucker setup but it will only be close. You will never get a great Single coil sound out of a set up like that. Jack of all trades master of none kind of stuff. I currently have 3 HSH guitars and have owned more than 20 in the last decade all chasing this dream and I have landed on just having a few HH guitars and HSS guitars to really cover on what I need for particular moods.

 

[Shaun M]

I would never play live anywhere without a second guitar as a backup. Some of the specs you have listed as once our directly conflicting with one another. You can get close enough with a humbucker single humbucker setup but it will only be close. You will never get a great Single coil sound out of a set up like that. Jack of all trades master of none kind of stuff. I currently have 3 HSH guitars and have owned more than 20 in the last decade all chasing this dream and I have landed on just having a few HH guitars and HSS guitars to really cover on what I need for particular moods.

I mean I’m more trying to chase a killer tone rather then copy a Strat sound perfectly. I think that these pickups would accomplish that don’t you?

 

[PFDarkside]

I mean I’m more trying to chase a killer tone rather then copy a Strat sound perfectly. I think that these pickups would accomplish that don’t you?

Do you have a Strat you can throw them in? Grab a HSH Pickguard and get the pickups to see if you like them. If you like them you’ve got them for the project, if you don’t you can flip them. Only out a pickguard either way.

(I’ve wanted to do the exact combo you are mentioning for 10 years but I’ve never gotten around to it)

 

[Shaun M]

Do you have a Strat you can throw them in? Grab a HSH Pickguard and get the pickups to see if you like them. If you like them you’ve got them for the project, if you don’t you can flip them. Only out a pickguard either way.

(I’ve wanted to do the exact combo you are mentioning for 10 years but I’ve never gotten around to it)

Oh yeah I could maybe try and throw them in a squire Strat I have and if I don’t like it I’ll just return them. Only issue is that I don’t exactly know how to do that and paying a tech to do it might be a bit much for just an “experiment”. Also the pots aren’t the right ones I don’t think 250k would sound good with them.

 

[Hodgo]

It’s a LOT of guitar. And I doubt it would make many sounds *I* would enjoy, but I see where you’re coming from.

Have you built a partscaster before? This is going to be a headache and a half.

Having said that, if you are Steve Morse incarnate, this seems like a great build

 

[Shaun M]

It’s a LOT of guitar. And I doubt it would make many sounds *I* would enjoy, but I see where you’re coming from.

Have you built a partscaster before? This is going to be a headache and a half.

Having said that, if you are Steve Morse incarnate, this seems like a great build

Yeah it’s my first time building anything. I have someone who can probably help out with actually building it so I’m not too concerned on that front. Right now I’m just trying to figure out what pickups I should put in. Everyone on the forum says the p-rails won’t be the best choice but now I have no clue.

 

[Hodgo]

Yeah it’s my first time building anything. I have someone who can probably help out with actually building it so I’m not too concerned on that front. Right now I’m just trying to figure out what pickups I should put in. Everyone on the forum says the p-rails won’t be the best choice but now I have no clue.

Never played them but that’s the word on the street. Who are your tone influences? How’d you end up on P-Rails in the first place? Sheer versatility?

I’ve chased that before and I have to say I’m always left wanting and always go back to a guitar with a few great sounds on it - less switches and knobs to boot. Still, I admire the idea of the ultimate “studio” guitar and your desire to chase it down.

 

[Shaun M]

Never played them but that’s the word on the street. Who are your tone influences? How’d you end up on P-Rails in the first place? Sheer versatility?

I’ve chased that before and I have to say I’m always left wanting and always go back to a guitar with a few great sounds on it - less switches and knobs to boot. Still, I admire the idea of the ultimate “studio” guitar and your desire to chase it down.

The dream is to get the ultimate “studio” guitar but we both know it’s futile ha. I mean my “first love” of guitar was probably John Frusciante.
More recently I’ve really been digging like John Mayers tone throughout continuum. I also love Khrungbins atmospheric type sounds. Also Rick from goose has a killer overdriven tone so probably stuff like that. 3/4 play strats so that’s probably quite telling. I was actually looking at some Strat pickups earlier today but I’ll get to that. The reason I went for p-rails was to get every sound in one.. at least that was the goal.

I just discovered the CoNiFe Strat pickups that fender sells and listen to some samples and I’m really starting to dig them. I don’t exactly like how rear routed Strats look but I saw you could put pickup rings on. So maybe I should get those with some chrome pickup rings? Just an idea.

Also I was thinking of maybe still getting the humbucker route in the bridge just to have it but using a single coil there with a humbucker to single coil ring.

Obviously I’d probably want to buy the pickups and test them out first but this is all quite new to me so i don’t really know.

P.S: I also love Mt.Joy’s tone which is the neck of a jaguar I think.

 

[stratamania]

@Rick you are using the wrong term for what you mean when saying tilt back in this thread. A Warmoth tilt back neck is at the headstock, in this post what you are talking about is a body with an angled neck pocket.