Newbie Question - how does a Warmoth assembled guitar compare to a USA Fender?

[LushTone]

Hmm, does Fender own Warmoth? I wouldn't be surprised, based on how much I know they own. Charvel, Guild, etc.

 

[Corey P.]

I think there's a pretty big distinction between build and assembly - a lawnmower is probably more complex than a guitar, and requires some user assembly, but I wouldn't say I built my lawnmower.

OR DID I? 

 

[SustainerPlayer]

I think there's a pretty big distinction between build and assembly - a lawnmower is probably more complex than a guitar, and requires some user assembly, but I wouldn't say I built my lawnmower.

OR DID I? 

Show us your lawn and we're tell ya!

 

[Corey P.]

I haven't mowed it lately because I've been letting the tone worms work their magic!

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Fender does not own Warmoth.

Warmoth is indeed family owned, but they have a handle in the business, and a very good one at that.  They wouldn't be around these 30+ years and doing O.E.M. work for other manufacturers if they weren't good at what they do.

 

[Patrick from Davis]

One also has to consider what you are after.  I am sure at Fender the setup is done to pass QC.  If you do the set up yourself, it is tailored to what you want.  This applies to pretty much every aspect of the build, from strap buttons to ferrules.  Warmoth allows for more options, which allows the individual to better match the guitar to the wants of the player for an equivalent price.  If you want a USA Fender, then by all means get one.  If you want want a strat with three P90's, a recessed floyd, a tigers eye finished maple quilt top, and a core wood of Korina, matched to a Wenge neck with a fat back neck contour, and ziricote fretboard, Warmoth would probably be a better way to accomplish that goal.  Personally, my goals are a bit different from what Fenders models cater to, so that is why I found my way to Warmoth.  But to imply that one set up is superior to another really depends on the user and what you want.  Quite honestly, the end product that you can put together with Warmoth parts could be close to identical to a Fender, but you could also make a custom whiz bang model that would be much less expensive because a Fender would have to be a custom shop thing.  The customized Warmoth would be equivalent in price to a regular USA Strat, but obviously much less than the same customized strat built by the Fender custom shop.
Patrick

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

One also has to consider what you are after.  I am sure at Fender the setup is done to pass QC.  If you do the set up yourself, it is tailored to what you want.  This applies to pretty much every aspect of the build, from strap buttons to ferrules.  Warmoth allows for more options, which allows the individual to better match the guitar to the wants of the player for an equivalent price.  If you want a USA Fender, then by all means get one.  If you want want a strat with three P90's, a recessed floyd, a tigers eye finished maple quilt top, and a core wood of Korina, matched to a Wenge neck with a fat back neck contour, and ziricote fretboard, Warmoth would probably be a better way to accomplish that goal.  Personally, my goals are a bit different from what Fenders models cater to, so that is why I found my way to Warmoth.  But to imply that one set up is superior to another really depends on the user and what you want.  Quite honestly, the end product that you can put together with Warmoth parts could be close to identical to a Fender, but you could also make a custom whiz bang model that would be much less expensive because a Fender would have to be a custom shop thing.  The customized Warmoth would be equivalent in price to a regular USA Strat, but obviously much less than the same customized strat built by the Fender custom shop.
Patrick

For the money, I'll take a well set up Warmoth over the Fender any day.  Where else are you going to get a chambered strat with an F-hole and top quality exotic, quilt, or flame top with all of your own personal custom options and personal custom setup for under $10k?  It's just not going to happen under the Fender logo.

 

[stubhead]

Typically, the happiest Warmoth customers are those of us who have been doing our own setups, changing pickups, tuners, even learning fretwork and finishing as an adjunct to playing music over the years. And with that background, assembling what passes for your current "perfect" guitar out of Warmoth, USACG, Duncan/DiMarzio/TonePros/Schaller etc. - it's not really a big deal. To come into it cold is actually not something I recommend, unless you have a meticulous guitar tech who'll do the heavy lifting. There are people with sufficient detail skills - gunsmithing, jewelry, some real strong cross-training in fine cabinetry, hobby electronics etc. But you have to be a good guitar player to know exactly what makes a great guitar. I was lucky to have a father who always had a workshop, and if I broke a window or a lamp I learned how to hang glass and wire things... by high school rock days it never would have occurred to me to pay somebody else to fix something made out of wood and wires. And there are choices and specialties, I'm content to play things made out of amber and brown wood but I'm real, real picky about my fretwork, and there are people with complementary, even opposite skills. I always tell people to buy Dan Erlewine's "Guitar Player Repair Guide", read the thing, and judge your skill level first - even if you usually farm the work out, you'll save thousands over the years cause you'll know what's needed.
http://www.danerlewine.com/guitar_repair_books.html
$23, $25 available the usual places. You'd never regret it... we have had people come in here with what I considered to be real sketchy skills who have ended up building nice guitars because they always asked questions, went slow, and farmed out the work they didn't have time to learn... but you probably have to make 12-15 nuts before you figure out how to just NOT fudge one up, every now and then. Unless you're kinda freaky for little bits of bone, that's usually going to spread out over at least a few years. I hope. 

 

[Patrick from Davis]

One also has to consider what you are after.  I am sure at Fender the setup is done to pass QC.  If you do the set up yourself, it is tailored to what you want.  This applies to pretty much every aspect of the build, from strap buttons to ferrules.  Warmoth allows for more options, which allows the individual to better match the guitar to the wants of the player for an equivalent price.  If you want a USA Fender, then by all means get one.  If you want want a strat with three P90's, a recessed floyd, a tigers eye finished maple quilt top, and a core wood of Korina, matched to a Wenge neck with a fat back neck contour, and ziricote fretboard, Warmoth would probably be a better way to accomplish that goal.  Personally, my goals are a bit different from what Fenders models cater to, so that is why I found my way to Warmoth.  But to imply that one set up is superior to another really depends on the user and what you want.  Quite honestly, the end product that you can put together with Warmoth parts could be close to identical to a Fender, but you could also make a custom whiz bang model that would be much less expensive because a Fender would have to be a custom shop thing.  The customized Warmoth would be equivalent in price to a regular USA Strat, but obviously much less than the same customized strat built by the Fender custom shop.
Patrick

For the money, I'll take a well set up Warmoth over the Fender any day.  Where else are you going to get a chambered strat with an F-hole and top quality exotic, quilt, or flame top with all of your own personal custom options and personal custom setup for under $10k?  It's just not going to happen under the Fender logo.

I agree totally.  Even on production models, I see better tolerances with Warmoth's parts.  I have played long enough to know what I don't want, and Warmoth allows me to get what I do.  Win win.  Best part is not having to pay unaffordable prices.
Patrick

 

[Strat Avenger]

I like USA Fender guitars, however I like my own custom preferences, and sadly I cannot afford a Custom Shop Fender at this time, so building a Warmoth is a nice alternative -- especially since I know how to assemble and perform a basic set-up.

I expect that if I ever buy another (new) Fender guitar, it will be a Custom Shop order, or not at all.

 

[swarfrat]

I want to try slotting a couple nuts, but the reason i want to learn is also putting me off because of the dozen or so practice ones required. I want a compensated nut for my 12 string, and thats not something i want to pay someone else going rate to learn how to do.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

The number of nuts I will ever need in my whole life, let alone investing in time or tools to make them, I'll just take it somewhere. 

Thinking of all the time and money I'll spend changing pickups, I'm not about to wind my own.

 

[tfarny]

OK, let's be clear here. A warmoth neck and a warmoth body are as good or better than any fender neck and fender body. In general I'd say warmoths are better and that Warmoth uses highest quality materials with great QC.

But the quality of the finished guitar - selection of other components, assembly, fret work, and setup - is NOT UP TO warmoth. It's up to you or whoever you pay to help you. The assembly work is really pretty easy and there are plenty of good people around to do final fret work and setup, so yes you can make a guitar that equals any USA fender and many have, but all W is providing is a box of great parts.

 

[stubhead]

OK, let's be clear here.

That doesn't sound very fun. :icon_scratch:

 

[Jusatele]

The number of nuts I will ever need in my whole life, let alone investing in time or tools to make them, I'll just take it somewhere. 

Thinking of all the time and money I'll spend changing pickups, I'm not about to wind my own.

good points

you know I own some American made Fenders and love them, the reason I did my first build was not to compete with Fender but to get a Fender they did not have, a Tele with 2 P90s. What I got with that, well lok in my signature, a very unique guitar and that one is one of my go to guitars.
My second build was to replicate a old 62 tele I had sold, I also did some custom stuff to it that Fender would never do.
Love that guitar.
My current build is just a idea gone wrong

guess my answer to the OP is that I can not compare my guitars to Fender American made, they each have boutique parts such as Lolar pups and up graded hardware. Although both do have Fender brand or better hardware I can tell you that the resale value of them are no where near what a AM Fender would be, however I think the quality of both exceeds AM Fender.

At a different forum I see guys who buy the 299 DIY kits and swear they are getting a quality guitar but I wonder that if 299 is all they put into it, what the end result is. After all you cannot make a quality guitar with discount parts, so think of that when asking the question of which is better, what went into it.

 

[swarfrat]

At some level, everything is labor costs. The stuff is free after all, free for the digging/sawing.  Material cost is just upstream labor.

I don't think you can say you can't make a quality guitar from economy parts.  It is difficult to make a quality guitar using components someone else has already done a shoddy job producing. It may not be economical, practical,  easy,  or even worthwhile, but to the extent of your patience and willingness to learn, and willingness to do stuff yourself others pay to have done, it is possible to make nearly anything you set your mind to, and do a fine job of it.

It is after all a hobby.

 

[Orpheo]

I tested over 20 customshop strats and teles and none was ok.

My first warmoth tele and bam. Instant hit. Got it all.


Says enough to me.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

OK, let's be clear here. A warmoth neck and a warmoth body are as good or better than any fender neck and fender body. In general I'd say warmoths are better and that Warmoth uses highest quality materials with great QC.

But the quality of the finished guitar - selection of other components, assembly, fret work, and setup - is NOT UP TO warmoth. It's up to you or whoever you pay to help you. The assembly work is really pretty easy and there are plenty of good people around to do final fret work and setup, so yes you can make a guitar that equals any USA fender and many have, but all W is providing is a box of great parts.

That's good preachin!  But starting with top notch parts will add to the final outcome of excellence.

 

[Great Ape]

OK, let's be clear here. A warmoth neck and a warmoth body are as good or better than any fender neck and fender body. In general I'd say warmoths are better and that Warmoth uses highest quality materials with great QC.

But the quality of the finished guitar - selection of other components, assembly, fret work, and setup - is NOT UP TO warmoth. It's up to you or whoever you pay to help you. The assembly work is really pretty easy and there are plenty of good people around to do final fret work and setup, so yes you can make a guitar that equals any USA fender and many have, but all W is providing is a box of great parts.

That's good preachin!  But starting with top notch parts will add to the final outcome of excellence.

Well said!! Add the element of your own imagination, and the prospect of potential joyous rewards simply BLOOMS!

 

[stubhead]

After all you cannot make a quality guitar with discount parts

I have to quibble with this, because I don't necessarily know how to tell the difference between quality and discount parts, and ones that are just plain different from each other. For example, everybody "knows" that the best, most expensive (now rarest) maple came from the old-growth forests where the trees grew close together, each got less sun as a result, and consequently grew more slowly, sometimes with hundreds of years of growth rings really close together. You get a hard, brilliant, sustaining quality from wood like that. And new, wide-grain, cheap bad discount maple has a bunch of space between the rings - but it's hard for me to categorically say it's bad, because it will have a more open, woody 'n' warm sound to it, like Mama claimed to be all true-blue maple but maybe Great-Grandmama spent some time slippin' around the swamp ash side of the forest.... I might like an open warm woody sound sometime.

This linguistic hoopery is acutely evident in the manufacturing claims of brands like DeTemple and D'Pergo, where they just need hundreds and hundreds of hours luthiering expertly away and $4,000 - $7,000 to painstakingly duplicate a 50's Fender slapped together out of the then-cheapest stuff available as quickly as possible by semi-skilled workers.  :icon_scratch:

Except they're not just duplicating it, they've improved it - even though it was defined by them as already perfect! 
:icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:

And it's clear that if discount = bad, then the finely-machined, ultra-heavy brass bridge parts from KTS, FloydUpgrade etc. must be almost the best thing available, second only to.... the finely-machined, ultra-lightweight bridge parts available from KTS, FloydUpgrade etc. But wait! Isn't plain ol' cheap steel right in-between the weight of brass and titanium, and though I know little* about metallurgy, it does seem like bending a single plate of steel sheet is likely to result in more intra-molecular continuity** than machining it out of a chunk.

I mean, if you want to just specifically define "discount parts" as "crap parts", then I'm all-in - don't make guitars out of crap, super! - but then where do you fit a $7,000 crap Gibson into your worldview..... :dontknow:

*(whoa)
**(Whoa!)