Can Warmoth Compare to Prebuilt?

[NoDa75]

I'm thinking of buying a new guitar this year. My immediate thought was Warmoth; good looks, outstanding quality, fully customizable. The build would probably be a chambered carved top Velocity with dual p90s. But then a thought crossed my mind: Warmoth guitars are great, but is a guitar from parts ever going to match the sustain and synergy of a pre-built guitar like PRS, Ibanez, or Fender. What I mean by synergy is the way that every part on those pre-made guitars is designed to fit together and work as one complete guitar system, if you will. Sustain is another important thing. When you have a guitar that is built from parts, there are so many factors that could effect sustain, because the parts aren't designed specifically to work together. As Paul Reed Smith said, "A guitar that sustains for 45 seconds is going to be a much better guitar than one that sustains for 10 seconds."

I hope that got my point across right!  :laughing7:

 

[mayfly]

Well, and this is just my opinion, but my warmoths are superior to every other instrument I have ever played.  I have played the following:

gibsons from the '50s, '60s, '70s, '90s, '00s, '10s
fenders from the '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s, '00s, '10s
rickenbackers from the '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s, '00s, '10s
Ibanezs from the '70s, '80s, '90s, '00s, '10s
PRSs from the '90s
A smattering of other brands like Dean, Hamer, etc.

My warmoths are better than all of those.  Why?  Simple:  I build them to look and sound the way I want them to.  You have complete control and you can achieve exactly the instrument that you need.  No one else can do that.

 

[Seamas]

Warmoth guitars are great, but is a guitar from parts ever going to match the sustain and synergy of a pre-built guitar like PRS, Ibanez, or Fender. What I mean by synergy is the way that every part on those pre-made guitars is designed to fit together and work as one complete guitar system, if you will. Sustain is another important thing. When you have a guitar that is built from parts, there are so many factors that could effect sustain, because the parts aren't designed specifically to work together. As Paul Reed Smith said, "A guitar that sustains for 45 seconds is going to be a much better guitar than one that sustains for 10 seconds."

I am not going to comment on PRS because since so much of their fame is around set-neck guitars.

But as far as Ibanez and Fender go, their process is NO different from a partscaster.
They aren't designing individual necks to fit individual bodies.
They mass produce the necks and send them on to assembly.
They mass produce the bodies and send them on to assembly.

Then they are assembled. The people doing the assembly aren't doing any real special matching (other than maybe some catalog specs in regard to body color and neck material)

There is no real magical synergy in their process. And you sure as shit aren't going to get "more " sustain from them from that.
I'm not knocking Fender--I think most people here love what Leo Fender brought to guitars (and basses and amps), one of the KEY aspects to his greatness was recognizing the benefit of his designs--they were economical, customizable and you could replace the neck if you needed to.

That is exactly the same in most regards to when you put together a Warmoth build--with one pretty important difference:
What you are getting from Warmoth is by and large superior.
With very few exceptions fitting of the neck and pocket is FAR more exact on a Warmoth. If you want sustain on a bolt neck guitar, you would be very hard pressed to do better than with a Warmoth.

What can you get from the Fender Custom Shop that you can't get from a Warmoth? I can think of a TON of things you can get from a Warmoth that you won't get from Fender.

The only issue you will encounter is resale value. At least for now.

 

[Seamas]

because the parts aren't designed specifically to work together.

But they are.
Other than specific things, like conversions, ort Tele neck pockets, etc, all of these things are designed to work together.

 

[NedRyerson]

For me, it's been the learning experience I'm picking up while building.

When I'd buy off-the-rack guitars, I knew nothing about set-up.  I assumed they were already set up properly and ready to play.  I figured the problem was my technique.

When I started building (not WM, but from import kits), I began learning.  I learned the basics of set-up, I learned how to intonate, I learned that pickup height and pole piece height matter (and why).

Now I can tell that my off-the-rack guitars need more and proper set-up, especially since I've had them for 5, 10, 20+ years now.  I wondered why a kit-built guitar sounded and played so much better.  My kit-build Mockingbird is so easy to play pinch harmonics; I found the sweet spot almost right away.

I'm still trying to play harmonics consistently on my Jackson or even my LP.  And that could have something to do with set-up, or just my technique.  It could be just pure, unrelated coincidence that I can play harmonics easily on a guitar I built versus ones I bought.

So now, I feel that my black V -- a 100% WM build -- is the most top-end guitar in my collection, even compared to my $1,300 Gibson Les Paul. But like Mayfly, I know it's that way because I specced it out and was hands-on in its creation from design to deployment.  Could I have gotten a legit Jackson King-V that was superior in quality and cheaper in total cost?  Probably.  But what would I have learned if I did that?

I wouldn't have practiced painting technique, the patience to let a coat of lacquer dry and cure, when and how to drill screw holes, how to cut a custom headstock.....

If you compare 1:1 -- a manufactured instrument versus a self-constructed one -- in the absence of all other factors, then sure, the manufactured one might be superior (or it might not be).  But for me, the entire experience of the build is a significant factor that I can't replicate if I go to Guitar Center or a local music shop and pluck a nice-looking guitar or bass off the wall and say to the sales person "I want this."

 

[Rick]

Your point is only thought half way thru because you've never built a guitar from parts before.  Once you start upgrading parts of your guitar, then you'll realize you can make something better than what prs, or any of the others can offer you.

For me, I first started by swapping pickups, then when you realize you can do that, you try swapping out pots, then get a new neck, then new tuners, then strap buttons, then you say, jeez, I can make something that is the best for me.  Plus it's fun to do.

All depends on what kind of person you are.  Are you the kind that likes to create things with their own hands, or are you the kind that wants to rely on others to do it.  Nothing wrong with the later by the way ...  as a musician I bet you're a creator and want to do this at least once.

 

[Strat Avenger]

I will never buy another production-line guitar...

 

[stratamania]

Anybody could take a good set of parts and make a great guitar. However that does not mean that everyone will - you get out what you put in. The better job you do the better the result.

 

[Verne Bunsen]

Anybody could take a good set of parts and make a great guitar. However that does not mean that everyone will - you get out what you put in. The better job you do the better the result.

Totally this. Warmoth parts are exceptional, but it is up to the person putting them together to make an exceptional guitar. Take your time, address the details, and you can build something that not only compares to a "prebuilt" guitar, but that exceeds it in most every way.
:icon_thumright:

 

[NoDa75]

Anybody could take a good set of parts and make a great guitar. However that does not mean that everyone will - you get out what you put in. The better job you do the better the result.

Totally this. Warmoth parts are exceptional, but it is up to the person putting them together to make an exceptional guitar. Take your time, address the details, and you can build something that not only compares to a "prebuilt" guitar, but that exceeds it in most every way.
:icon_thumright:

Well said. You get out what you put in...

 

[Sean6247]

Just about every iconic guitar is a partscaster. Most professional musicians have modded one aspect or another of every production guitar out there. That is why so many signature models exist.

This is the evidence for partscasters being as good/better than production guitars.

 

[wildbill]

I will never buy another production-line guitar...

Dat's a fact, Jack !  Me too, me 2.

 

[swarfrat]

There's also the speculation about just who paid for that massive upgrade in capability a couple years ago. More people are playing Warmoth than know it.

Anyone remember the funny headstocks in the showcase a while back?

 

[rlefty]

There's also the speculation about just who paid for that massive upgrade in capability a couple years ago. More people are playing Warmoth than know it.

Anyone remember the funny headstocks in the showcase a while back?

Heh, I'll bite on this. I didn't see any funny headstocks, probably because I'm always looking for lefties. Pics?

 

[rlefty]

To the OP, like others have mentioned, Fender guitars (specifically) are parts guitars with the parts built to spec and the assembled later; not any different than Warmoth (who happen to build to that same spec). Really any mass-produced bolt on construction instruments are done this way.

The set neck stuff, like Gibson and PRS are actually also built this way, though the bodies and necks are mated (permanently) earlier in the build process.

The main difference is that, the more you tend to pay, the more you can assume that someone who understands how to set up a guiltar is involved in final assembly. But that someone *can* be yourself (as you learn) and/or a local tech with a Warmoth build.

All that said, the resale value of parts builds is unfortunately not great, no matter how quality your build is/was. But you certainly can put a build together that is on par with any of the best Suhr or Fender Custom Shop guitars, etc. And you get to pay less than half for it while execising maximum configurability. Lastly, you can have a completely custom built bolt on guitar in probably 3 months from paypal to final assembly (less without covid). That process takes well over a year with the big builders, other than Kiesel.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Having been a former employee of Warmoth, and many of my fellow employees at the time being former Fender employees from the Tacoma Guitars buyout, I can say with a considerable amount of confidence that Warmoth’s quality has always been the eventual potential Fender has always aspired to, but has never been able to accomplish.  Many of the wood choice trends that have come into the marketplace over the past 15+ years, as well as some of the upcharge options by Fender as well as some other manufacturers have been standard options by Warmoth (at much more affordable rates) already by many preceding years.  Warmoth by and large has been the uncredited trendsetter, with latecomers assuming all the credit.

 

[skydog]

If the mass producers were doing such a fabulous job, why do we see so much variability between the instruments hanging on the wall of our local Guitar Center? We can look for weeks, if not months to find that one special example that has the qualities that we seek.

Additionally, if all of those mass produced instruments were so perfect, why is there such a thriving market for upgraded parts and doo dads? Theoretically, each example should be perfect, for the price point represented and it should be impossible to improve upon them, apart from finish and color schemes.

In fact, each individual design is a collection of compromises and each individual example is produced by someone with varying degrees of care and experience. Shall we decide which compromises are most important to us, or allow some third party decide what's best for us?

 

[TheGreatRedDragon]

My Warmoth superstrat plays and sounds better than any prebuilt Strat or Charvel I've played.

So yes, they can.

 

[swarfrat]

 

[NoDa75]

I just want to give a huge thank you guys for all the replies! I can't reply to each one individually haha