Newbie Question - how does a Warmoth assembled guitar compare to a USA Fender?

DHart

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Please forgive my ignorance... I've never looked into the "build your own" guitar thing and have only had factory made Fenders, Gibsons, Martins, etc.

I know it would be really cool to put together one's own, unique, custom guitar such as one can do with Warmoth components.

What I don't know is how the quality and playability of the instrument would compare to a top quality USA made Strat or Tele.

Any comments that will help me understand how these build-your-own customs compare to the top quality Fender models would be much appreciated!

Thanks, in advance.
 
If it were optioned out identical to a USA Fender and had a professional setup, it would be identical or better.  This isn't an opinion, but the legalese in the license that says Warmoth must meet or exceed Fender quality.

However, it's not an apples and oranges comparison.  More like comparing a red delicious to a granny Smith.  Fender does some things Warmoth doesn't do like satin and gloss finishes on different parts of the same neck and rolled finger boards.  Warmoth also does some things Fender doesn't, such as offer 3 different neck constructions, multiple fretboard radii, multiple neck profiles, wood choices, and inlay options, etc., and that's just necks.  Body options.is a whole other can of worms.

If one set out to build a Warmoth identical to a Fender, what's the point?  Most of us that came here with Fender needs have built something Fender doesn't.
 
STDC... thanks for the comments.  I wouldn't want to duplicate a Fender guitar (I have a vintage Strat that I've had for decades and LOVE it@!).  But was just thinking about all the building of Strats and Teles that is going on and I was wondering if these guitars are of comparable playability, quality, and excellence in sound quality, etc.  Just thinking I may want to build one of my own for the fun of it, but not wanting to spend the money unless the result is likely to be a truly excellent instrument.
 
It really does depend on which model of Fender you're talking about - there are several levels of 'USA" Fender - and how you spec out the Warmoth. Also, of course, how you put the Warmoth build together. You can order the moste expensive parts possible, but if you hack them together, drill things incorrectly and set the guitar up poorly then it's not going to be a good guitar.

For what it's worth, as someone who owns and deals with American Fenders - both new and vintage - on a daily basis, and who owns guitars made entirely from Warmoth parts and also parts from other companies, I would actually say Warmoth is the least comparable with Fender, out of all the parts companies. Warmoth parts feel much closer to Carvin or ESP guitars. In fact measuring them, the Standard Thin profile Warmoth uses for necks is virtually identical to the ESP Thin U neck, not at all like the Medium C that Fender uses. The fretboards aren't rolled and the fret ends are cut at a steeper angle too, and the bodies are actually a very slightly different shape, apart from the 'Vintage' Strat and Tele bodies Warmoth now offers.

If we assume you're talking about comparing them to the standards of a Fender American Standard guitar, I would say a Warmoth can be as good as one, in terms of raw quality, but it banks on you putting it together properly, of course. The spec will still be different because Warmoth parts don't actually match Fender parts exactly - they're all a bit 'hot rodded'. I would say that Musikraft are a closer match if you were trying to actually replicate a Fender American Standard.

I think it's worth saying though that if the Fenders you're thinking of are more along the lines of an American Deluxe, a Custom Shop model or an actual 50s or 60s Fender, then no, Warmoth (nor any other parts company) is going to compare. Fender don't license companies that put out a product that competes with their own absolute top guitars.

A parts guitar can still be ''better'' than those Fenders in the sense that you can have it made exactly as you want it, which counts for more than plain quality, but from an objective point of view it will always be inferior. It's not a slight on Warmoth or any other company, it's just a fact that a parts guitar that costs £700 to put together isn't going to match a £5,000 handmade masterpiece.

To use myself as an example, when I wanted a basic SSS Stratocaster I bought a Fender. When I wanted a Telecaster that felt like normal Fender with the exception of all-rosewood neck and my own paint job, I used Musikraft. When I wanted a hard rock 24.75" scale Jazzmaster and a Thinline Telecaster that could do grunge, I used Warmoth.

So, have a think about what sort of spec you really want. If what you feel you really want is a regular Fender design then I think you're better off buying a Fender, using Musikraft or USACG parts or making a true partscaster out of second hand Fender parts from eBay. If you want something that feels more modern and custom, go with Warmoth. They'll all result in the same quality, it just becomes a question of the sort of feel and tone you're after.
 
Having done both, as I'm sure most of us have, I tend to like the process of planning and assembling something that is just mine.  In particular I enjoy the finishing process, but many many not.  I can say that what got me into the DIY world was that I was unsatisfied with the quality of sub-$1000 guitars these days.  Having purchased one that needed fret, nut work, and better electronics right out of the box was disappointing. 

Sure, we can pick up an $1800 Strat and its nice, but to me it better be a wow moment for that money.  I got a huge amount of quality time, experience, and satisfaction from assembling something of my own for far less money.  So now I have a mahogany strat with dual humbuckers and a standard thin, compound radius short scale neck.  Can't really find that at the local guitar center, and even if you did, some 14 year old would be trashing it anyway. :) 
 
I've got both ,  The advantage of the Warmoth is you spec all the components.

The satisfaction of building your own is wonderful

The advantage of Fender( small) is warranty ( never needed it)  and possible re-sale ( never sold any of mine)
 
+1 on resale.

Guys join the forum all the time just to post in the gear for sale thread, and get butt hurt when we think they're asking price for (nice) used Warmoth parts are too high.
 
When you compare the quality of wood parts, they are the same or equal, but with Warmoth you get more choice as to neck shape and construction for example.
In general your resale value will be better with Fender.
It is likely that the Fender will have higher quality skills compared to yours,
However if you have superior assembly skills and for example with a tele flatten the back of the bridge assy, put in extra screws and other tricks of assembly, can make a guitar superior to Fender if you have the skills.
The Fender model is what it is, with Warmoth you have choice of not just construction, but with choice of hardware.
The Fender has more research behind it for a particular model
Warmoth assy by you has the fun of making choices and if you don't like a choice, you can change it, do your research.
Fender makes thousands of the same guitar.
Yours is likely unique (Warmoth)
For resale value, for value in general, stick with a Fender guitar, same for playability stick with Fender.
If you are willing to learn, make mistakes, enjoy the process of assy and learning to try new things and have the pride of being part of the birth process of a guitar that is uniquly yours good or bad. Warmoth is the way to go.
 
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
the legalese in the license that says Warmoth must meet or exceed Fender quality.

Ouchie - ya know I'd never really considered the unintended implication of that phrase - designed by Fender lawyers to protect their own brand, actually implies quite the opposite.
 
swarfrat said:
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
the legalese in the license that says Warmoth must meet or exceed Fender quality.

Ouchie - ya know I'd never really considered the unintended implication of that phrase - designed by Fender lawyers to protect their own brand, actually implies quite the opposite.


Well, it works both ways -- if the public believes widely that Fender (well, maybe USA Fender) is synonymous with some level of quality that substantially exceeds the bare minimum, insisting that the licensee adhere to a quality level that meets or exceeds Fender's own functions as a barrier to entry.  Such a marketing-plus-legal approach to the problem thus preserves and fortifies Fender's market share while avoiding antitrust/unfair business practices issues that might otherwise attract the attention of certain three-letter Federal agencies.

 
I've bought my share of Fenders, but I can't say that I was ever thinking "I'll get good resale on this one". Doesn't mean I haven't sold afew for one reason or another, but I don't buy guitars to sell 'em. With the qua-zillions of Stats & Teles made every day, I don't perceive their resale value to be particularly impressive anyway. That being said, it's
true that a finished Warmoth's value is less to the general public/musician, but Warmoth's unequaled VALUE is to the individual (THAT'S US) who derives a certain je ne sais quoi (ya like that one?) from imagining and then following through on their own unique vision. I could care less about the dollar value of my Warmoth projects to anyone else-to me, they're priceless... 
 
Just a quick thought:

If you're looking for a fender type guitar because you like the fender brand/lore/history, then get a Fender.  If that's what you're after, nothing else will do.

If you're looking for a serious tool to make music, then build a custom guitar.  And if you're doing that, I can tell you from personal experience that Warmoth is the best place to start.

You need to have a quick chat with the guy in the mirror and determine what's truly important:  the guitar or the music.  Once you answer that, the choice is easy.
 
Bagman67 said:
swarfrat said:
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
the legalese in the license that says Warmoth must meet or exceed Fender quality.

Ouchie - ya know I'd never really considered the unintended implication of that phrase - designed by Fender lawyers to protect their own brand, actually implies quite the opposite.


Well, it works both ways -- if the public believes widely that Fender (well, maybe USA Fender) is synonymous with some level of quality that substantially exceeds the bare minimum, insisting that the licensee adhere to a quality level that meets or exceeds Fender's own functions as a barrier to entry.  Such a marketing-plus-legal approach to the problem thus preserves and fortifies Fender's market share while avoiding antitrust/unfair business practices issues that might otherwise attract the attention of certain three-letter Federal agencies.

Yes, but that specific phrases implies Fender to BE the bare minimum.  I think I'd say 'meet Fender quality standards' and leave it at that. It sets the same expectation without the implication that your licensee is better than yours.
 
swarfrat said:
Bagman67 said:
swarfrat said:
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
the legalese in the license that says Warmoth must meet or exceed Fender quality.

Ouchie - ya know I'd never really considered the unintended implication of that phrase - designed by Fender lawyers to protect their own brand, actually implies quite the opposite.


Well, it works both ways -- if the public believes widely that Fender (well, maybe USA Fender) is synonymous with some level of quality that substantially exceeds the bare minimum, insisting that the licensee adhere to a quality level that meets or exceeds Fender's own functions as a barrier to entry.  Such a marketing-plus-legal approach to the problem thus preserves and fortifies Fender's market share while avoiding antitrust/unfair business practices issues that might otherwise attract the attention of certain three-letter Federal agencies.

Yes, but that specific phrases implies Fender to BE the bare minimum.  I think I'd say 'meet Fender quality standards' and leave it at that. It sets the same expectation without the implication that your licensee is better than yours.


I see where you're going, but I read the license's quality requirement as suggesting (adopt broad Scots accent)  "IF IT'S NOT FENDER, IT'S CRAP!"
 
One of my favorite guitar solos is by Randy California in the group Spirit, It was "Ive got a line on you" played on a crappy $25 brand new Sears Silvertone Guitar.
Your technique is the biggest factor in your tone.
In this discussion, we are comparing a US made Fender that was designed, built and assembled by folks who do this for a living. When you go the Warmoth route you get some parts. There is no true research into the Warmoth guitar, nor is it likely to be assembled who is skilled. So, we know the Fender has a basic setup, good hardware. The warmoth could have tuning keys that do not hold a tune, the warmoth could be improperly assembled and so it is a crap shoot with the Warmoth.  However, there is no way to learn how to do set up etc, except through experience.
My last guitar I built from scratch, my current guitar uses a warmoth tele body as a basis for my design that I have had for twenty years.
So, for this discussion it is highly likely that the Fender USA made guitar will be superior, but you are limited to the choices Fender made. But what fun is that? You are going to have more fun if you assemble your own guitar and learn. I am in process of selling my fenders and gibsons because I am building my own guitars. When you have the assembly and building skills to equal the Fender USA, you can most certainly go beyond their quality except at that point it is more about your technique and ability to play than the quality of instrument.
 
HELLO!!!? I don't see any "Warmoth Brand" tuners for sale
on the Warmoth site...and, my guess is that there are some folks on the forum with more than enough experience and skill to equal the assembly-liners at Fender, not to mention the fervor with which some of these projects are, ahem, attacked! Yes, we all know it's ultimately the player who makes the difference--just bear in mind that we on this forum are wackey, egomaniacal, visionary, guitar playin' fools, and we're touchy about it!!! :toothy12: :icon_biggrin: 
 
Well some of the discussion doesn't make sense to me because we are comparing apples with oranges. If you dismantle a Fender American Standard which I own. I also have a guitar based on Warmoth parts that I own and other guitars that I have built more or less from scratch.
They both use CNC routers and for the most parts the parts are equal in quality. However you cannot play guitar parts and so the quality of the assembly and hardware is a question when building a guitar based on Warmoth parts. So the Fender is complete ready to play, the Warmoth at this stage has potential.

I am a retired graduate apprentice steel fabricator. It is unlikely if we were to do the same build of something in steel for you to have the same quality as I do. I have a lifetime of skills based on 5 yrs of training at the beginning. I have 4 of those years in school.  I cannot build at home, what I can in a fully equiped shop, nor do I have access to all the materials I need at home, like I do in a shop.

The significance is that Fender employees have done their job by the tens of thousands of time vs your first build. They have access to any tool or material needed to build that guitar and make decisions that they have made maybe thousands of times before, including having access to other more skilled employees. Then their is the moisture monitoring and climate control at the Fender Factory, you will not that at home during assembly, then their is all the jigs for assembly and accuracy that you will not have at home.

Fit, Finish and setup is a huge part of what makes an electric sound and play great. That is where the Fender has a huge advantage. You learn nothing about any of that by buying the Fender guitar. However you can learn and eventually make guitar with fit, finish and setup equal or better. Certainly the satisfaction of designing you own guitar is worth something even if in fit, finish and setup it is inferior.
I am a left handed player, my options buying fender guitars is just limited to a few models, however my options building a Warmoth based guitar are endless.
Clearly for quality when we compare apples for apples which would be a particular model Fender American against the equivalent model Warmoth parts. The Fender would win in quality due to the skills and experience of its workforce. It is where we talk about satisfaction and choice where a guitar build based on Warmoth parts has the advantage. Choice of wiring, position of controls, so many choices, to be able to make a guitar based on your ergonomics instead of accepting the cookie guitar based on a person who does not exist, give this round to Warmoth

My answer is based on the question, having said that, guitars do not play themselves, you do, I suggest that when you want a guitar, you build one or assemble one from Warmoth parts. That is how the two compare
 
Then again...the grandfather of a friend has a place at the beach. He built the pier himself. He got about halfway through and decided it was more work than he wanted to tackle, so he called a pro. The pro took one look at the pilings he'd already set, and asked "Who did this work?" When he said "I did it myself", the pro told him "I don't think you're going to happy hiring this job out". Pilings are pilings, and good enough is good enough to get paid. He'd set them meticulously straight & plumb - with a level of care that would never survive the bean counters axe.
 
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