Man, buzz kill... warning, really sad story!

hannaugh

Senior member
Messages
4,230
Warning: Majorly depressing post!

I'm having a good old time sitting here looking at cool guitar stuff on my laptop while I watch the news, and the story on the news was that a little 4 year old boy was killed today in LA.  But it wasn't by accident, he was shot.  And he wasn't hit by a stray bullet in a nearby shooting that had nothing to do with him.  Someone pulled up in their car while he was playing in his yard and shot him 3 times.  The cops think it was a gang initiation.  Not some sicko acting alone because they hear voices or whatever, but some loser trying to get street cred with their bling bling buddies.  I hate that there are people who do things like that, who are encouraged by other people to do things like that because they think it is cool to pick a random person and kill them for no reason whatsoever.  Especially someone's little baby.  I mean, death of an innocent is always horrible, but somehow the random gang initiations disgust me the most.  I can't even imagine being a parent and having something like that happen. 

I need to get away from LA. 
 

Alfang

Senior member
Messages
2,596
I hate hearing stories like that

In a perfect world, the citizens of a community are not supposed to really do anything, We are supposed to call the pollice and let the law and justice do its course

The time is comming quick that WE the People need to form or own groups to take back our streets and out country, the cops should be allowed to shoot anyone displaying  gang signs.

I have seen stories of places in LA where cops wont even go into, I don't get that.

More people die from gunfire in LA each year than Iraq, Time to pull out of LA?
 

Superlizard

Senior member
Messages
2,514
Yep - a bullet for every low-life, crack-piping-mumblist, POS gang-banger.

Line 'em up and kill 'em all... scum of the earth.

And since we're talking scum of the earth types, put Blagojevich in there as well.  :icon_biggrin:
 

Rick

Senior member
Messages
4,154
Where I live there's more violence, and I think, due to the economy there will be more of this, across the country, so I think, if that's the only reason you want to leave LA, you'll not find anyplace better, unless you want to move to some remote rural area and live like a hermit.

I wonder how this economic slow down has affected warmoth?  It may help them, because there may be more people looking to diy.  I dunno, it sure sucks.
 

theklanch

Senior member
Messages
209
Superlizard said:
Yep - a bullet for every low-life, crack-piping-mumblist, POS gang-banger.

Line 'em up and kill 'em all... scum of the earth.

And since we're talking scum of the earth types, put Blagojevich in there as well.   :icon_biggrin:

I don't agree with gang mentality.  I think they should shoot the mothers of the gangbangers, cause it seems like the only people these bangers respect is their mama.........and Tupac.

Seriously, if all illegal drugs were made legal (I know that crack and heroin are no good for you, but neither is alcohol) these gangs would have no source of income.  Take away the legal ramifications of drug use sale and possession, and there is no reason for the gangs to commit crimes.  Think about it, if ALL illegal drugs were legalized, you would take the criminal aspect out of the gangs activities, they wouln't need to fight for turf to sell their drugs, they wouldn't need to protect themselves with guns, they could get high all day and not have to go out kill people.  I don't know, it is my opinion that this is a major problem in our country, specifically the illegality of drugs.  Alcohol prohibition didn't work, it only lasted for 10 years.  Marijuana prohibition has now lasted some 70 years and it never worked.  You don't hear of people acting like Bugsy Segal and Al Capone over some hooch anymore now do you?  But you still hear of people getting shot over illegal drugs.  If you could go to Kroger and get an ounce of pot and a teener of blow, don't you think that the criminal aspect of doing the drugs would be gone?  I sure do. 

Our law makers still will not accept that the previous generation made a huge mistake with making drugs illegal.  It is the classic adam and eve story.  You can do anything you want, except eat that fruit.  What was the first thing Eve did after she was told not to touch the fruit?  She went and ate it anyway.  It is human nature to defy authority.  It is the oldest story ever told. 

My opinion and my opinion only.
What a shame to kill a 4 year old to get into a gang.....Such a waste.
 

dbw

Senior member
Messages
4,531
Okay, obviously any maniac who would harm a child needs to be off the streets yesterday.  But this ain't the old west, cowboys.  Shooting more people is the worst possible way to avoid violence... how can you not see that?

Legalizing drugs would go a LONG way towards ending urban violence in the US.  Starting a race war with that sort of rhetoric will NOT, Alfang and SL. 
 

AndyG

Senior member
Messages
562
theklanch said:
Superlizard said:
Yep - a bullet for every low-life, crack-piping-mumblist, POS gang-banger.

Line 'em up and kill 'em all... scum of the earth.

And since we're talking scum of the earth types, put Blagojevich in there as well.   :icon_biggrin:

I don't agree with gang mentality.  I think they should shoot the mothers of the gangbangers, cause it seems like the only people these bangers respect is their mama.........and Tupac.

Seriously, if all illegal drugs were made legal (I know that crack and heroin are no good for you, but neither is alcohol) these gangs would have no source of income.  Take away the legal ramifications of drug use sale and possession, and there is no reason for the gangs to commit crimes.  Think about it, if ALL illegal drugs were legalized, you would take the criminal aspect out of the gangs activities, they wouln't need to fight for turf to sell their drugs, they wouldn't need to protect themselves with guns, they could get high all day and not have to go out kill people.  I don't know, it is my opinion that this is a major problem in our country, specifically the illegality of drugs.  Alcohol prohibition didn't work, it only lasted for 10 years.  Marijuana prohibition has now lasted some 70 years and it never worked.  You don't hear of people acting like Bugsy Segal and Al Capone over some hooch anymore now do you?  But you still hear of people getting shot over illegal drugs.  If you could go to Kroger and get an ounce of pot and a teener of blow, don't you think that the criminal aspect of doing the drugs would be gone?  I sure do. 

Our law makers still will not accept that the previous generation made a huge mistake with making drugs illegal.  It is the classic adam and eve story.  You can do anything you want, except eat that fruit.  What was the first thing Eve did after she was told not to touch the fruit?  She went and ate it anyway.  It is human nature to defy authority.  It is the oldest story ever told. 

My opinion and my opinion only.
What a shame to kill a 4 year old to get into a gang.....Such a waste.

Your idea, even though you admit is only your opinion ... has TONS of problems associated with it.  If you legalize illegal drugs, who is going to regulate them?  We have the issue of drunk driving ... can you imagine driving under the influance of heroin?   Right now, another legal drug ... cigarettes, are costing the health care system billions of dollars.  Who is going to pay for hospital OD treatments?  By legalizing illegal drugs, you just put a larger, more organized gang of criminals, th coorporations, in charge of them.

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity .... as that is what the original story exemplifies.  The ONLY way to eliminate the gang mentality is to eliminate the gangs.
 

GoDrex

Senior member
Messages
3,619
I love how some people are just itchin' to start up the camps and fire up the ovens. No interest whatsoever in the causes of the problems they detest. Dehumanize and exterminate are the only things that can think of.
 

Superlizard

Senior member
Messages
2,514
dbw said:
Starting a race war with that sort of rhetoric will NOT, Alfang and SL.

Race has nothing to do with this.

Green, pink or purple - I don't give a F what color anybody is - if they're a banger, they need to be put down... permanently.

Don't want to be a positively contributing member of society and instead choose to victimize innocent citizens and be a threat to the community?

Then reap it... "so long, sucka".

To add, there's no excuse for taking a 4 year old and shooting him dead.  NONE.  Just as there was no excuse for someone like Tookie Williams to murder the people he did.  And the list goes on and on.

NO EXCUSE.
 

NeilStryker

Senior member
Messages
266
GoDrex said:
I love how some people are just itchin' to start up the camps and fire up the ovens. No interest whatsoever in the causes of the problems they detest. Dehumanize and exterminate are the only things that can think of.
:icon_thumright: 
 

dbw

Senior member
Messages
4,531
Neil, I assume that thumbs up was for Gary's point, not a thumbs up for genocide?  :doh:

SL, you can say it's not about race but when a middle-class white guy (and I'm pretty damn sure, just from your politics, that you're white, middle-aged, middle-class, and from a red state... please correct me if I'm wrong) says something like "low-life, crack-piping-mumblist, POS gang-banger" there's a big racial undertone.
 

hannaugh

Senior member
Messages
4,230
I don't think gangs would stop if you made drugs illegal.  I have often dreamed of the looks on their faces when they hear that drugs are legalized, cause that would be pretty satisfying.  But there will always be bullies who get off on hurting and scaring people.  Another delightful story recently was that there was a mentally handicapped man walking to the grocery store down the street from his house, and a teenager came out from an alley and hit him in the head with a baseball bat and killed him.  There was no reason for it at all, no gang reason, just because he thought it would be funny to kill a retarded guy.  Luckily they got the whole thing on camera and they caught the kid.  

Besides, there are lots of other illegal things they could or already do deal in, like illegal weapons and prositution.  Even if all of that was legal, they would find something.  

I think there are some serious pros and cons to legalizing drugs and having them be illegal.  It's a toss up for me.  I do like the idea of taxing the hell out of it though, then lowering taxes on things that hard working regular people need.  

I think if they really wanted to curb the drug lords, they would stop throwing them in jail (cause they are back out in 5 minutes) and start just fining the crap out of them.  $100,000 fine for first offense in dealing.  It goes up 5x every time.  What would scare you more, 6 months in jail, or the thought of the government hounding you for money for the rest of your life?  Even if you make a lot of cash dealing drugs, it would be hard to just pay them off.  After you get caught a few times, it's gonna start getting stressful trying to dodge the collectors, the cops knocking on your door constantly trying to get you to pay.  And juries are much more likely to convict someone if they are just going to get fined.  There is no "I'm taking away their freedom" guilt.  

My mom had an idea about dealing with gangs.  Make a huge bullet proof arena where the gangs can legally go and shoot each other.  They have to sign waivers when they get there, but all of their stupid gang wars would go on in there and not in public places.  It would be a lot easier for them to knock each other off that way.  I really don't know if it would work in getting them to stop shooting outside of it, but they would wipe themselves out faster.  

Another idea I had was that instead of trying to keep up the terrible inner city schools, maybe we should just do the school voucher thing and send all the kids from bad areas to really strict boarding schools in the desert.  When they graduate high school they come back to the hood and don't know anyone that well, since they all get sent to different schools, and they actually got an education with actual consequences when they did something wrong.  

I am actually thinking of moving to a more rural area.  Somewhere where if you get rear ended on the freeway, you don't have to run because you are scared that you got hit by the gangstas who do that and then blow you away when you pull over as part of their initiation.  It's a good idea to be careful of anyone who you get in a fender bender with in any part of the country, but it's especially scary here where that type of thing happens fairly often.  
 

NeilStryker

Senior member
Messages
266
dbw said:
Neil, I assume that thumbs up was for Gary's point, not a thumbs up for genocide?   :doh:

haha... yes, thumbs up for what drex said.  a big thumbs down for genocide.   
 

hannaugh

Senior member
Messages
4,230
Oh and by the way, there are gangs of all different races.  Skinhead white power neo-Nazi idiots, the bling bling Tupac wannabees, the Latino lowriders, the Asian gangstas with the crazy tiger tattoos.  They are all scary.  My friend got beaten up by a Latino gang when he lived in LA.  He almost died.  Then he testified against them and they came after him again.  They trashed his apartment, stole his car and drove to his work place (a music school) and stole all of his gear including his Gibson Les Paul classic.  They would come by and hassle him every few weeks.  It was pretty apparent that they were just playing with him until it came time to take him out.  He finally left town for a few months and then came back and moved to a different area around here.  

There was also a thing at the high school I went to.  Asian gangsters killed a kid with a bat and buried him in one of their back yards.  And those guys were not even from the slums!  It was just the gangster mentality.
 

Mor Paul

Senior member
Messages
7,238
Eh... I hate hearing about stuff like this.
I know SL will disagree, but this is one of those reasons I think guns should be more tightly regulated.

And I've got a friend who's dad is neo-Nazi, unfortunately. He's not violent, but... yeah.
 

hannaugh

Senior member
Messages
4,230
Regulating guns will do nothing.  Criminals can always get guns. 

Remember, murder is also highly regulated, but it still happens all the time.
 

Superlizard

Senior member
Messages
2,514
dbw said:
SL, you can say it's not about race but when a middle-class white guy (and I'm pretty damn sure, just from your politics, that you're white, middle-aged, middle-class, and from a red state... please correct me if I'm wrong) says something like "low-life, crack-piping-mumblist, POS gang-banger" there's a big racial undertone.

Yes, because everyone who holds conservative values, believes in being responsible for one's own actions and doesn't tolerate murderers and other scum bags is "obviously" middle-class, white and racist. :toothy12:

While I am certainly a whitey (technically, "German-Irish-Czech American" heh), and I am 39 (but don't even look close to it), the truth of the matter is you have no clue as to how I grew up.  And I can honestly say I only became truly "middle-class" as of a few years ago.  I had a rough life, and I certainly could have taken a different route if I had chosen to do so... but I'm not a POS; I did the right thing.  While technically I was a victim, I refused to act like one - and I refused to use that as an excuse so I could be a POS.  See, POS's take the easy way out cuz deep down, they're pussies.

So don't go off assuming too much there.
 

theklanch

Senior member
Messages
209
AndyG said:
theklanch said:
Superlizard said:
Yep - a bullet for every low-life, crack-piping-mumblist, POS gang-banger.

Line 'em up and kill 'em all... scum of the earth.

And since we're talking scum of the earth types, put Blagojevich in there as well.   :icon_biggrin:

I don't agree with gang mentality.  I think they should shoot the mothers of the gangbangers, cause it seems like the only people these bangers respect is their mama.........and Tupac.

Seriously, if all illegal drugs were made legal (I know that crack and heroin are no good for you, but neither is alcohol) these gangs would have no source of income.  Take away the legal ramifications of drug use sale and possession, and there is no reason for the gangs to commit crimes.  Think about it, if ALL illegal drugs were legalized, you would take the criminal aspect out of the gangs activities, they wouln't need to fight for turf to sell their drugs, they wouldn't need to protect themselves with guns, they could get high all day and not have to go out kill people.  I don't know, it is my opinion that this is a major problem in our country, specifically the illegality of drugs.  Alcohol prohibition didn't work, it only lasted for 10 years.  Marijuana prohibition has now lasted some 70 years and it never worked.  You don't hear of people acting like Bugsy Segal and Al Capone over some hooch anymore now do you?  But you still hear of people getting shot over illegal drugs.  If you could go to Kroger and get an ounce of pot and a teener of blow, don't you think that the criminal aspect of doing the drugs would be gone?  I sure do. 

Our law makers still will not accept that the previous generation made a huge mistake with making drugs illegal.  It is the classic adam and eve story.  You can do anything you want, except eat that fruit.  What was the first thing Eve did after she was told not to touch the fruit?  She went and ate it anyway.  It is human nature to defy authority.  It is the oldest story ever told. 

My opinion and my opinion only.
What a shame to kill a 4 year old to get into a gang.....Such a waste.

Your idea, even though you admit is only your opinion ... has TONS of problems associated with it.  If you legalize illegal drugs, who is going to regulate them?  We have the issue of drunk driving ... can you imagine driving under the influance of heroin?   Right now, another legal drug ... cigarettes, are costing the health care system billions of dollars.  Who is going to pay for hospital OD treatments?  By legalizing illegal drugs, you just put a larger, more organized gang of criminals, th coorporations, in charge of them.

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity .... as that is what the original story exemplifies.  The ONLY way to eliminate the gang mentality is to eliminate the gangs.

I do agree with your last statement.  

I think the root of the problem in the gang culture is the illegality of the drugs.  If drugs were legal, there goes the criminal aspect of what most gangs are all about: drug sales.  Why do they fight for turf?  For the ability to sell their crack on that particiular corner without competion.

Also I read on this post that there are cops that won't go into certain sections of LA because of gang activity.  Well the little piggies are there to protect and serve.  Maybe some of "LA's finest" should grow some balls and go in there and cop around a little.  I think they tell all the wannabe pigs in pig academy that they might get killed on the job.  Well if you don't want to get killed at work, be a freakin paperboy, not a cop, that is their job, to go into places where crime is and fight crime.  Not sitting at the Krispy Kreme with the radar gun.  Writing speeding tickets is a great way to deter violent crime now isn't it?

Maybe drugs don't need to be regulated at all.  That was my point.  I don't want to see people driving all faded either, but I don't think killing people or "firing up the ovens" is gonna solve anything.  What about personal responsibility?  I smoke cigarettes, and if I get cancer it is my own damn fault, isn't it?  Or should I blame the government for not making tobacco illegal?  I think if you OD on drugs, they shouldn't be obligated to save your stupid ass.  How many times does some junkie get dropped off at the ER only to wake up as a turnip?  More times than you would realize.  I do agree with your statement of legalizing drugs puts their control into a more organized gang, corporations and what have you.  I don't know man.  I am a casualty of the "war on drugs"  and I have the scars to prove it.  I wasn't physically injured, but do a pre employment background check on me and I look like a veteran that earned a couple of purple hearts.  I aspired to be a high school shop teacher when I was younger, then I got busted with pot and now I can't do anything like that, cause the commonwealth deemed me as a threat to children, all because I got caught with a little grass.  So I can blame all of our socio-economic problems on drug prohibition.  If they ever do leagalize reefer, what is going to happen to all of the people convicted of marijuana crimes?  What about people who are currently serving hefty sentences right now for pot?  This is why marijuana specifically will not be legalized in many states now, they make too much money on it being illegal, and furthermore there would be a ton of lawsuits from convicted marijuana dealers etc.  I know if PA ever legalized pot or if the feds did, I would go back to school and go to law school so I could sue the pants off of every state and the fed government on behalf of every convicted marujuana offender out there.  I never said my idea was a particularly good idea, but it is different than what is going on now.  Think about it, where do most gang bangers get their money?  From drug sales.  I don't think gangbangers are selling Avon.  Look back in time at the golden age of gangsters, the prohibition era.  When the gov't figured out the law didn't work and repealed the amendment, well that kind of took the revenue out of the bootleggers pockets and put it into the states pockets.

If our government would decriminalize marijuana specifically and sold it at the grocery store, the revenue from marijuana sales could pay off the national debt within 3-5 years.  But how would the powers that are feel about paying their debts from the proceeds of marijuana taxes?  IDK I take the "pursuit of happiness" line in the declaration of independence pretty literally (which was written by a hemp farmer BTW)  Funny how hemp was there in the beginning, and really all of our patriots back in the 1700's were all pretty much drunk all the time, water purification wasn't even a thought back then, they all drank alcohol so they wouldn't get sick

I get pretty irate when it comes to the topic of drug legalization.  In fact I don't agree with legalization at all per se.  I like to use the words decriminalization and deregulation.   Marujuana is a plant just like a tomato.  How many governmental regulations are there on the use sale and possession of tomatos?  I think they should treat pot like your average garden plant.

Sorry for the hijack, it really saddend me to hear about the senseless killing of a kid to prove that someone was cool.  

Again, my opinion.  Dumb as it might be, it is my opinion.

"They say that Cain caught Able rollin loaded dice.  Ace of spades behind his ear and him not thinking twice"

As long as there are more than two people on this planet, murder will always be in our reality unfortunately.....

I'm done with the political and social posts, they get my blood pressure up.  I'm gonna stick to guitar talk (unless of course something strikes a nerve again)
 

Superlizard

Senior member
Messages
2,514
theklanch said:
As long as there are more than two people on this planet, murder will always be in our reality unfortunately.....

Yep... and one can't rely on the cops to "protect and serve" ya - if even for the simple fact that there aren't enough cops to go around anyways.

Instead, rely on yourself and your aim.  :icon_biggrin:
 
G

guitlouie

Guest
I'm done with the political and social posts, they get my blood pressure up.  I'm gonna stick to guitar talk (unless of course something strikes a nerve again)

I always say that too.  The one thing that I would like to contribute to this is this point.  Anyone, on either side of any of these issues that are being brought up here, that says "Oh, I have a simple solution for that....(Insert simple minded, simple solution here)"  is the one who is out of their minds.  There is no simple solution for any of these issues.  Someone said the cops should be allowed to shoot anyone flashing gang signs.  Then they shoot YOUR kid....."Oh I think he flashed a gang sign..."  sounds like a good plan to me, give the cops more of a chance to become the criminal.   Someone said make the mothers responsible.  What about the mothers who really did try to no avail to keep their kids out of this kind of life?  Someone said, shoot everyone you think is doing wrong.  Who made you judge jury and executioner?  The kinds of problems that end with a 4 year old being shot to prove what a big man you are, are not the kind of problems that can be solved by overnight with a simple "Let's do this".  We all need to take back our world if we want a functioning society, but it is not going to be easy, and it is not going to be up to some cowboys riding through town blowing everybody away.  I for one made a decision a long time ago not to live in fear of this world.  That was step one for me.  Once again,  there are NO SIMPLE SOLUTIONS!
 
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