LSR roller nut with a 12" radius?

[Surf n Music n Ski n Bike]

From what I understand the LSR roller is a 9.5" radius. The warmoth site suggests using a max of 11" radius. Has any one used this nut with a straight 12" and if so what is your experience?  I was thinking of getting a straight 12" neck and wanted a roller nut.  Just doing a little research before I order.

 

[Strat Avenger]

No experience with the LSR, but a standard Floyd nut has a 10" radius and works fine with a 12" and 12.5" straight radius neck. Not that much of a difference.

 

[Surf n Music n Ski n Bike]

Thanks, that is reassuring. I read in some other forms that people had no problems, so it sounds like I'd be safe.

 

[Rob]

I don't have a 12" radius but I have the lsr on a Warmoth compound radius neck, 10" at nut at it works fine.

 

[Surf n Music n Ski n Bike]

I don't have a 12" radius but I have the lsr on a Warmoth compound radius neck, 10" at nut at it works fine.

Ya that is within Warmoth's range of acceptable radius. I figured 12 aint that much more then 11 which is their maximum suggestion. Should be allright i"m guessin.

 

[Shadow]

I don't have a 12" radius but I have the lsr on a Warmoth compound radius neck, 10" at nut at it works fine.

Ya that is within Warmoth's range of acceptable radius. I figured 12 aint that much more then 11 which is their maximum suggestion. Should be allright i"m guessin.

I know I don't post here very often, but I tend to lurk and read the depths of the forum fairly regularly. :icon_jokercolor:

Anyways, I just wanted to quantify this a little bit with some math:

Given that your E and e are the same height off of the fretboard, the difference in height at the D and G strings between a 9.5" radius nut and a 12" is only on the order of 0.015" or ~0.4mm.

Hope that helps. :rock-on:

 

[Surf n Music n Ski n Bike]

I don't have a 12" radius but I have the lsr on a Warmoth compound radius neck, 10" at nut at it works fine.

Ya that is within Warmoth's range of acceptable radius. I figured 12 aint that much more then 11 which is their maximum suggestion. Should be allright i"m guessin.

I know I don't post here very often, but I tend to lurk and read the depths of the forum fairly regularly. :icon_jokercolor:

Anyways, I just wanted to quantify this a little bit with some math:

Given that your E and e are the same height off of the fretboard, the difference in height at the D and G strings between a 9.5" radius nut and a 12" is only on the order of 0.015" or ~0.4mm.

Hope that helps. :rock-on:

Thanks Shadow! That is exactly what I was looking for. A little exactness. That aint much in my opinion. I think I will order my neck next check!!

 

[drewfx]

I'd be careful.

It may not seem like much in terms of action, but you have to shim the nut to the proper height and if the inner strings are too high they will not intonate properly for the first few frets.

 

[Surf n Music n Ski n Bike]

I'd be careful.

It may not seem like much in terms of action, but you have to shim the nut to the proper height and if the inner strings are too high they will not intonate properly for the first few frets.

But I already heard what I wanted to hear! It will work!!!  :laughing3:

 

[stratamania]

I'd be careful.

It may not seem like much in terms of action, but you have to shim the nut to the proper height and if the inner strings are too high they will not intonate properly for the first few frets.

But I already heard what I wanted to hear! It will work!!!  :laughing3:

What if it doesn't work as well as you hope ?

If the radius of the fingerboard is larger than that of the nut, the height of the middle strings will be lower than those on the outside. Ergo the outer strings having a good action may mean the middle are too low or vice versa the strings in the middle having a good action may mean the outer ones are too high.

But just curious why not use a compound radius neck and avoid the problem or use a different nut on a straight 12" radius ?

 

[Surf n Music n Ski n Bike]

I'd be careful.

It may not seem like much in terms of action, but you have to shim the nut to the proper height and if the inner strings are too high they will not intonate properly for the first few frets.

But I already heard what I wanted to hear! It will work!!!  :laughing3:

What if it doesn't work as well as you hope ?

If the radius of the fingerboard is larger than that of the nut, the height of the middle strings will be lower than those on the outside. Ergo the outer strings having a good action may mean the middle are too low or vice versa the strings in the middle having a good action may mean the outer ones are too high.

But just curious why not use a compound radius neck and avoid the problem or use a different nut on a straight 12" radius ?

I do like my compound radius neck that I have. I guess I just wanted to try a straight radius and see how it feels. It does seem that with that nut the compound would be better though.

 

[Strat Avenger]

I'd be careful.

It may not seem like much in terms of action, but you have to shim the nut to the proper height and if the inner strings are too high they will not intonate properly for the first few frets.

But I already heard what I wanted to hear! It will work!!!  :laughing3:

What if it doesn't work as well as you hope ?

If the radius of the fingerboard is larger than that of the nut, the height of the middle strings will be lower than those on the outside. Ergo the outer strings having a good action may mean the middle are too low or vice versa the strings in the middle having a good action may mean the outer ones are too high.

But just curious why not use a compound radius neck and avoid the problem or use a different nut on a straight 12" radius ?

This is absolutely not true.
A 10"nut on a 12" fretboard will result in the D & G strings being slightly higher than the E-A and B-E.

 

[stratamania]

I'd be careful.

It may not seem like much in terms of action, but you have to shim the nut to the proper height and if the inner strings are too high they will not intonate properly for the first few frets.

But I already heard what I wanted to hear! It will work!!!  :laughing3:

What if it doesn't work as well as you hope ?

If the radius of the fingerboard is larger than that of the nut, the height of the middle strings will be lower than those on the outside. Ergo the outer strings having a good action may mean the middle are too low or vice versa the strings in the middle having a good action may mean the outer ones are too high.

But just curious why not use a compound radius neck and avoid the problem or use a different nut on a straight 12" radius ?

This is absolutely not true.
A 10"nut on a 12" fretboard will result in the D & G strings being slightly higher than the E-A and B-E.

Well you just confirmed exactly what I meant to say in different words, except what I meant to say was the middle will be too high or the outer too low. Typing with jet lag isn't guaranteed

And I said those differences in height may mean a less than desired result not that it's guaranteed to be awful.

 

[Surf n Music n Ski n Bike]

I would be bummed to spend all that money just to find it doesn't quite work. I don't have a lot of money so I am gonna piece one together slowly. I have read on other forms where people said no problem, it worked for them.  Although I have seen opinions go to there other extreme and say only use it on a 9.5 radius and even then the roller nut is a gimmick and just use a solid nut cut properly.

 

[Great Ape]

If Warmoth states a max of 11'', why would you disregard that, and assume that 12'' is fine? Sounds to me as though you could be asking for trouble...at considerable cost, no?

 

[Cagey]

If Warmoth states a max of 11'', why would you disregard that, and assume that 12'' is fine? Sounds to me as though you could be asking for trouble...at considerable cost, no?

Good point. Here's my take on the subject:

The thing is, they're a cast rather than machined part, so they're a bit brittle. That is, you really can't bend them. They'd rather break if you do. Because of that, it would be risky to shim them in such a way as to change their radius, and there's no other way to do it.

Warmoth mills the slot for them with a flat bottom, so if you install them normally, you're good to go. With a 12" radius, the fretboard is going to be slightly flatter than a 10", which is what they're designed for, so your D-G strings are going to be ever so slightly higher than if you had a more traditional nut that was accurately cut. Is it enough to notice? I would say in 90% of the cases, no. Most nuts aren't cut that accurately, and we're talking thousandths of an inch here. So, most folks not only wouldn't notice it, they'd think they're enjoying an improvement in string height consistency. Besides, the difference would only be noticeable down at the nut where you play cowboy chords. The farther up the neck you go, the less influence it would have. I would say by the 5th to 7th fret, that difference would cease to exist and you'd be under the influence of your bridge's radius adjustments.

All that said, while a 12" radius is certainly playable, the 10"-16" compound radius is a Good Thing. It gives the best of most worlds. Lower chords are easier to play, and higher notes are easier to bend without interference. You can set your action slightly lower without worrying about fret buzz, given a good setup. The LSR sits in its design parameters, as it should. There really is no downside, and nothing to be gained by using a straight radius.

Graphtech nuts can be set up perfectly, though, so if that's the object of the exercise and a 12" radius is the only acceptable solution, perhaps the Graphtech would be the way to go. At least that way, the thing can be cut right, given a luthier with the appropriate tools/skills.

 

[Surf n Music n Ski n Bike]

If Warmoth states a max of 11'', why would you disregard that, and assume that 12'' is fine? Sounds to me as though you could be asking for trouble...at considerable cost, no?

Good point. Here's my take on the subject:

The thing is, they're a cast rather than machined part, so they're a bit brittle. That is, you really can't bend them. They'd rather break if you do. Because of that, it would be risky to shim them in such a way as to change their radius, and there's no other way to do it.

Warmoth mills the slot for them with a flat bottom, so if you install them normally, you're good to go. With a 12" radius, the fretboard is going to be slightly flatter than a 10", which is what they're designed for, so your D-G strings are going to be ever so slightly higher than if you had a more traditional nut that was accurately cut. Is it enough to notice? I would say in 90% of the cases, no. Most nuts aren't cut that accurately, and we're talking thousandths of an inch here. So, most folks not only wouldn't notice it, they'd think they're enjoying an improvement in string height consistency. Besides, the difference would only be noticeable down at the nut where you play cowboy chords. The farther up the neck you go, the less influence it would have. I would say by the 5th to 7th fret, that difference would cease to exist and you'd be under the influence of your bridge's radius adjustments.

All that said, while a 12" radius is certainly playable, the 10"-16" compound radius is a Good Thing. It gives the best of most worlds. Lower chords are easier to play, and higher notes are easier to bend without interference. You can set your action slightly lower without worrying about fret buzz, given a good setup. The LSR sits in its design parameters, as it should. There really is no downside, and nothing to be gained by using a straight radius.

Graphtech nuts can be set up perfectly, though, so if that's the object of the exercise and a 12" radius is the only acceptable solution, perhaps the Graphtech would be the way to go. At least that way, the thing can be cut right, given a luthier with the appropriate tools/skills.

Thanks for the input. It makes a lot of sense. If I choose to go with a LSR I think I will go with the compound. And Great Ape good point.

 

[Cagey]

If I choose to go with a LSR I think I will go with the compound.

I would do both and be very happy. It's a good setup that's hard to beat. It's a little tough to justify an $80 nut, but they really do work well and in the grand scheme of things, it's a small part of the overall cost of the instrument.