Long scale basses (36", 37")

[kidgloves2]

Were you using a vintage style bridge?
If you have a high mass bridge, it sets back a lot further.

Mine has a vintage bridge. I'm going to look into the badass style soon, my friend at work has that. We will see.

 

[kidgloves2]

Besides that, there has to be room to move with the saddles.  If there's  1 1/8" to 1 3/8" to move that does not account for the anchoring of the bridge, the break over angle, and room to intonate.  You can't just mount the ball end of the string onto the saddle.  That's a whole other set of logistics.

I'm talking about unscrewing the whole bridge and moving it back an inch. On mine there is still PLENTY of room for the saddles to move and intonate. I wasn't talking about just moving the saddles back.

 

[Edin]

I'm talking about unscrewing the whole bridge and moving it back an inch. On mine there is still PLENTY of room for the saddles to move and intonate. I wasn't talking about just moving the saddles back.

If there is enough space for moving the bridge, it is the best solution especially/only for fretless basses.

 

[kidgloves2]

If there is enough space for moving the bridge, it is the best solution especially/only for fretless basses.

Unless they designed a fretted 35" scale neck. Which was the original point.

They would only have to change the scale/fretboards of their current necks and offer a compatible routing option for their existing bass bodies. The entire bridge would have to be routed an inch back. And the pickup routing would have to move to get back in the sweet spot. MAYBE the control knobs would have to move back a hair, but probably not.

But no new body designs, neck length etc... It would be easy.

 

[kidgloves2]

Here is what Carvin did. Look at the bridge placement. This concept would also work on a Jazz bass or a P bass if you went 1 inch. Carvin goes 1/4" more, but I'm sure 1 inch would make a difference.

34" scale Carvin.

35 1/4" scale Carvin

And a quote from Carvin

The XB75 extended scale 5-string bass is designed for the bassist who appreciates a tighter low B-string than is sometimes found on 34" scale basses. At 35¼", the longer scale produces more punch, but is just as comfortable to fret as a 34" scale bass. Physically, the XB75 is the same size as Carvin's LB models; the longer scale length is acheived by moving the bridge and reducing the number of frets to 22.

 

[Edin]

Unfortunately, Gecko can get few milimeters more :sad1:

 

[line6man]

Moving the bridge is a totally stupid idea!

If you make the neck longer only, the body design can stay the same. No bridge repositioning, and no pickup repositioning. You can pair your 35"/36"/37" neck to a regular 34" body without issue.
If you reposition the bridge, you have to also reposition your pickups, get a new pickguard design, and buy the 35"/36"/37" neck. Even if you keep the neck to the same specs as a regular 34" neck, you would need different side dot locations, and for those of you still fooling with the speed bumps, :icon_jokercolor: new fret locations.

So what's it going to be?
Should we do a new neck that can pair with the existing bodies, at the expense of an inch or two in length, or perhaps we should re-design both the neck and the body, and be forced to mess around with the body's aesthetics with the bridge and pickup repositioning? :tard:

 

[Edin]

Developing XL neck and tools (SW/HW) for production brings the initial cost, but also a new product on the market. Warmoth must constantly adopt new products and services and introduce them into production. It should be a business policy. (see Philip Kotler: How to Create, Win, and Dominate Markets)

 

[kidgloves2]

Can anyone see the Carvin pics I linked to? They were there an hour ago. I don't see them anymore. Does Carvin block linking?

Line6man, If moving the bridge back is a stupid idea, then I guess Carvin is a stupid company. And Aesthetically it's no t much different. If those pics were there you would see.

Also, if you keep the bridge where it is and just add a longer neck to scale, aka your idea, The pickups would still need to be moved to the new sweet spot. Everything shifts for both our ideas. If your nut shifts foward, your natural harmonics shift forward and so do your pup sweet spots. With your idea the pups move forward. With my idea the pups move back. Both need new routing and new pickguards.

Or you can just leave the pups in their normal 34" scale location for both our ideas. How much does it matter, I don't know? At least with the Carvin concept, you don't need the arm reach of of a heavyweight prize fighter. If you're already comfortable playing bass, you won't be reaching any farther. And fret size is only affected a little since that 1 inch is divided up into 22 frets. It's a trivial ammount for each fret.

The only thing your idea has going for itself is multiple scale choices. But from a business standpoint, I doubt Warmoth will sell many 37" scale necks. 35"scale is at least becoming more common.

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Line6man, If moving the bridge back is a stupid idea, then I guess Carvin is a stupid company. And Aesthetically it's no t much different. If those pics were there you would see.

The bridge isn't the only thing that is moved.  Moving the bridge forward or back changes the scale length but does nothing to change the fret positions proportionate to the change.  The Carvin is a different animal.  It's a different scale length, different neck joint, and different neck length.  On the the Carvin cite, only 2 of the 20+ basses were more than 34", both were 35 1/2".  FWIW, on the spec list of the XB75 and 76, the specs listed 24 jumbo frets but both pictured on the cite were both 22 fret.

 

[kidgloves2]

The bridge isn't the only thing that is moved.  Moving the bridge forward or back changes the scale length but does nothing to change the fret positions proportionate to the change.  The Carvin is a different animal.  It's a different scale length, different neck joint, and different neck length.  On the the Carvin cite, only 2 of the 20+ basses were more than 34", both were 35 1/2".  FWIW, on the spec list of the XB75 and 76, the specs listed 24 jumbo frets but both pictured on the cite were both 22 fret.

I'm only talking about those 2 Carvin long scale basses and how they were modified. I think you missed every point that was made. And they don't have a neck joint, They're neck through. And both the 34" scale and the 35 1/4" scale have the same overall length. They were able to change the "scale length" WITHIN the overall length. And the fret positions are slightly moved.....that's why you lose 2 frets.  And I don't care anymore, Warmoth isn't going to do it anyway.

"The XB75 extended scale 5-string bass is designed for the bassist who appreciates a tighter low B-string than is sometimes found on 34" scale basses. At 35¼", the longer scale produces more punch, but is just as comfortable to fret as a 34" scale bass. Physically, the XB75 is the same size as Carvin's LB models; the longer scale length is acheived by moving the bridge and reducing the number of frets to 22."

 

[rockskate4x]

it's not quite as simple as that. Carvin also must have moved the frets to different locations, because just moving the bridge on a 34 inch scale bass will make the intonation off. The frets must have moved as well

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Calm down there buddy.  Don't confuse my disagreement for not understanding your points.  I know the neck joint on the Carvin is neck thru whereas the Ws are bolt-on, this is why I used the words "different neck joint."  In any case, like Line6man stated, simply moving the bridge back (if it were possible on Ws Fender style bass bodies) presents are sorts of problems, like moving the pickup routes, new pickguard routings, new fret locations, etc.  A 35" conversion neck is a better, and easier solution.  FWIW, if you remember I am for a longer scale W bass. And no, Carvin is not stupid for moving the bridge, but they had the room to move and change the neck proportions and keep the bass's footprint the same.  Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.  They're different animals.  Simply moving the bridge back on a W (fretted bass) only creates problems.  A 35" conversion neck requires no body mods and still makes everything compatible.  Simply moving the bridge (on W's 34" scale) back to increase the scale length (which can't be done) means you have a 35" or 35 1/2" scale length with a 34" scale neck.  Repositioning the frets would mean losing some, so you would now have an 18 or 19 fret neck.  Bad idea.  A conversion neck makes the most sense, on Warmoth's current Fender based parts.  If you wanted a 35" scale, the Geckos do that, but not in 4 string.  What don't I get?

 

[tubby.twins]

Let's assume we start with a standard Warmoth 4-string body size and shape, and keep the bridge in the same position.  Let's also assume that we will be lengthening the neck by an additional 1 or 2 frets, while keeping the scale of the remaining frets constant.  The advantage of this approach is that the distance of all the "old" fret intervals doesn't change, so you really only need to learn to "stretch" more down at the new lower frets.

Adding one additional fret to an existing 34" (863.6mm) scale bass with 21 frets would yield a total scale length of 36.02" (914.94mm).  The new first fret would be in the position of the original nut (at 34" scale); the additional space to the new nut would be 2.02" (51.352mm).  This would automatically give us a 22 fret neck.

Adding two additional frets to an existing 34" scale bass with 21 frets would yield a total scale length of 38.16" (969.35mm).  The new second fret would be in the position of the original nut (at 34" scale); the additional space to the new first fret would be 2.02" (51.352mm), and the additional space to the new nut would be 2.14" (54.405mm).  This would automatically give us a 23 fret neck.

As others have mentioned, pickup spacing would need to be adjusted in order to keep at the same harmonic points as those of a 34" scale neck.  In the worst case (38.16" scale) both pickups would need to move away from the bridge saddle points by 12.2% of their original length.  There should be enough room to do that.  

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

So....conversion neck?

 

[rockskate4x]

+1

 

[kidgloves2]

I came off as a dick in my last post. My apologies.

I totally forgot about Warmoth's fretboard extension option. With the idea that I've been pushing, you lose some frets. If you move the bridge back, you need to extend the scale of the 'fretboard' and you lose some frets. But with the fretboard extension option, you get them right back. And there is way more room on a bass for fretboard extensions than on a guitar.

I think I'm almost willing to pay extra and have Warmoth just do a custom job for me. I'm going to call them and get a quote on a normal neck with extended scale fretboard.

 

[Wyliee]

I can barely reach the G string tuner on a 34" scale Jbass neck.  Extending the neck out two or three inches would make the tuners unreachable.....  I know I'm not the tallest person in the world, but I'm also not the shortest.  Plus... where could one find strings long enough to stretch the 36/37" scale length with enough left over to reach the G string and wrap around the tuner?  Sorry folks, but I see some definite implementation issues here....

 

[Super Turbo Deluxe Custom]

Would a 35" conversion neck for the Fender stuff be a problem?

 

[Edin]

I can barely reach the G string tuner on a 34" scale Jbass neck.  Extending the neck out two or three inches would make the tuners unreachable.....  I know I'm not the tallest person in the world, but I'm also not the shortest.  Plus... where could one find strings long enough to stretch the 36/37" scale length with enough left over to reach the G string and wrap around the tuner?  Sorry folks, but I see some definite implementation issues here....

Sorry, but I think You is wrong. There is no problem with Warmoth peghead. Second, Coco Strings makes extra long scale strings, DH Hi beams fit to 37"3/4 Lo Rider so, DR long neck series, D'Addario SL series, Ritter strings, Ken Smith regular scale fits 36" regularly (see photo)

No string trough body, but has enough space to wrap around the tuner...