here is a fun one for those who studied music

[Jusatele]

Sooo
Once a month a spend a few hours with the local college Jazz club, the professor is great and really can come up with stuff to press your improve. Tonight he came up with a mind game.
Here was his setup and argument.
Blues.
Blues is basically playing a minor scale over a major progression.
As it has progressed today, that scale is the minor pentatonic, (most modern players no longer rely on the 6 tone blues scale.
So he has us all put on head phones and run the scale for 5 minutes in C
Then he states that blues progressions are traditionally major progressions and he has us all play the diatonic chords in C for 5 minutes.
So now we are all harmonically set for tonight’s mind f$^. He makes us play a f mixolodian mode with a added B and Eb tones to the common played 7th chords of the blues: I 7, IV 7, and V 7 whose tones in C,E,G,Bb-F,A,C,Eb-G,B,D,E.
Of course the chords are not harmonic to the C major, only the G 7 is, but if you would look at the F mixiolodian mode with the added tones then everything is diatonic to it. ( I think we all can agree the F mixiolodian is a combo of the major and minor pentatonic with a b 3rd)
So looking at the material, he wants us to write an argument about what tones to drop to make a 7 tone scale to fit the genre, or do we have to agree that Blues actually needs a 9 tone scale.
I go with a 7 tone scale, dropping the D and Bb using chord substitution rules.
Anyone want to hash this out?

 

[AGWAN]

I only got about 15 percent of that. but GOD how I want to understand the rest.

I don't think my guitar teacher... teaches THAT.

 

[Jusatele]

I could explain it to you, but it would take a bit of typing. It actually is quite interesting as it explains how come the blues has so much staying power
in other words, the blues looks like it breaks a lot of rules, but somehow the guys who started it actually made it fit perfectly within the rules by breaking them.

AGWAN, read this page  http://www.torvund.net/guitar/index.php?page=Th_harmscale

that will get you to 65 %

 

[AGWAN]

And Really, if you listen hard enough to enough heavy metal.

you don't need a Music Degree to figure out where it came from.

the Blues influence is OBVIOUS.

 

[Superlizard]

Cool stuff.

I've always thought it was kinda funny how the minor pentatonic scale, so prevalent
in blues (as you mentioned)... is actually quite Chinese-ish.

I think of Chinese culture and music... and then blues... and it doesn't fit at all.   :icon_scratch:   :laughing7:

 

[Jusatele]

funny you should mention that, one of the 2 Chinese scales have the same tones as the Pentatonic Major, and the other is a 5 tone scale also
I had a teacher once who knew way to many scales

 

[drewfx]

So now we are all harmonically set for tonight’s mind f$^. He makes us play a f mixolodian mode with a added B and Eb tones to the common played 7th chords of the blues: I 7, IV 7, and V 7 whose tones in C,E,G,Bb-F,A,C,Eb-G,B,D,E.

Do you mean add "B" and "E" (not "Eb") to F mixolodian here?

And thinking about the question, my first idea is I would leave out the E and the A, leaving:
C D Eb  F G  Bb B

I don't like the idea of leaving out the Bb, as that is one of the altered notes (I 7 chord).

 

[Jusatele]

f major is  F G A Bb C D E F so the mixiolodian in Fmajor would have the same tones, correct, then we added Eb and B with the two Pentatonics

I found leaving out the Bb easy, 2nd rule of harmonic progression states that any chord can be preceded by it's dominant, so seeing how C is dominant to F we can change it to it's dominant form to F.

I reeally had to think about the D

 

[drewfx]

So then you mean the "mixolodian mode in the key of F major" = "mixolodian starting on C", right? I read "F mixolodian" as "mixolodian starting on F".

I just like to make sure it's 100% clear for the people following along who don't know tons of theory.  :dontknow:

 

[AGWAN]

Is this something that can be learned reading books?

because it really interests me... but i doubt I have the money to be a music major.

 

[Jusatele]

Is this something that can be learned reading books?

because it really interests me... but i doubt I have the money to be a music major.

it can be learned on the internet, I posted a link abouve about the Harmonized Major scale that would get you up on the reasons we use the chords we do.

 

[AGWAN]

Holy crap how did I miss that.... thanks!

 

[Jusatele]

So then you mean the "mixolodian mode in the key of F major" = "mixolodian starting on C", right? I read "F mixolodian" as "mixolodian starting on F".

I just like to make sure it's 100% clear for the people following along who don't know tons of theory.  :dontknow:

the F major mixiolodian scale, starts on C and uses the tones of the F major scale, normally when stating scale names, we do not use F major, as we would F minor as if not mentioned we default to the major.
I was taught to refer to the modes as they relate to their major scale, I have seen a lot of people refer to them as the first tone, but then that is confusing to me.

 

[AutoBat]

i have no idea what anything in this thread says.

 

[hannaugh]

AGWAN, I'm using this book.  It's very easy to understand, and will explain most theory things to you:  http://www.amazon.com/Everything-Music-Theory-Book-Understanding/dp/1593376529/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1286555664&sr=8-1

As for the question... is he basically asking you to define the mixo-blues scale and then just drop notes from it?  Also, what drewfx said.  I'm not really clear where you are starting this "F mixolydian" scale.  Isn't the mixolydian mode of F major the C mixolydian scale?  You're starting on C, right?  

 

[AGWAN]

I took Music theory in high school.

but not having ANY musical education before it. I had no idea what the hell they were saying.

I failed the class, As I told the teacher I would. but I still wanted to sit through it.

its left me having no idea how to play a scale, but with a clear understanding of random words i can't put together.

 

[hannaugh]

Oh wait, never mind that last bit.  I see your answer now.  I was taught the other way.  

 

[drewfx]

the F major mixiolodian scale, starts on C and uses the tones of the F major scale, normally when stating scale names, we do not use F major, as we would F minor as if not mentioned we default to the major.
I was taught to refer to the modes as they relate to their major scale, I have seen a lot of people refer to them as the first tone, but then that is confusing to me.

Well it is quite confusing if you read it the opposite way from the way it was intended. :icon_scratch:

Generally, when someone says "G Lydian", I'd be one of those who thinks in terms of "D major, starting on G" (rather than "G major, starting on C"), so I guess I'll need to remember to be clear which interpretation I mean.

 

[hannaugh]

So this guy basically took a scale, made it into a different scale by adding stuff to it, and wants you to further change that scale by taking things out of it, while fitting it with chords from a key that no one would really want use with the scale you started with?  :tard:

This guy is mean. 

 

[drewfx]

So this guy basically took a scale, made it into a different scale by adding stuff to it, and wants you to further change that scale by taking things out of it, while fitting it with chords from a key that no one would really want use with the scale you started with?   :tard:

This guy is mean. 

Actually, if you think he's mean, you'd probably think most jazz-theory types are mean.

He may get meaner - don't be surprised if the next step is to harmonize the newly created scale, and use those new chords as a basis for substitutions in the original chord progression.

And then play the original mixolodian scale over that.  :evil4: