G4: From black to Korina - to DIY chambering
- Thread starter MortenB
- Start date
Jumble Jumble
Hero Member
- Messages
- 1,932
Lovely finishing job. That thing oozes warmth.
And yeah, the painting thing is so weird. Well done on taking the risk - it paid off.
And yeah, the painting thing is so weird. Well done on taking the risk - it paid off.
Perry Combover
Senior Member
- Messages
- 307
Yes, turned out great!
And a few more... I'm happy that I opted for a ''simple'' satin nitro finished maple neck for this one, instead of some exotic wood (my other Warmoth's has Pau Ferro necks). The maple is a good contrast for the Black Korina, the Walnut and the Pau Ferro (I think).
Attachments
I will use active EMG CSX soap bars, so shielding is not needed, but this way I did not have to remove the rest of the paint from the pick up cavities (really difficult to get to).
When the pick up's and preamp arrive in 1-2 weeks time I will have all the parts. I'm really looking forward to get some bone rattling noise from this one.
When the pick up's and preamp arrive in 1-2 weeks time I will have all the parts. I'm really looking forward to get some bone rattling noise from this one.
Attachments
Thanks Bagman... Yes, it turned out nice. I find, that it takes the same time and effort to just ''throw it in there'' as to do it tidy, so I do the best job I can...
I finished it off by rubbing some clear coat onto the copper foil just after I installed it. When the clear coat dries it helps the copper foil stick much better to the body because it get's into all the little cracks and seams, it also get's in between the back of the foil and the body, and thus work as a glue. The picture is with the clear coat already on there.
I finished it off by rubbing some clear coat onto the copper foil just after I installed it. When the clear coat dries it helps the copper foil stick much better to the body because it get's into all the little cracks and seams, it also get's in between the back of the foil and the body, and thus work as a glue. The picture is with the clear coat already on there.
Time for some status pics... Here is a test assembly showing the front and back.
I have used several layers of wax/buffing on top of the Tung-Oil, and I now have a beautiful depth and nice shine that is not too glossy. I put fewer layers of wax/buffing on the front because I did not want the grain to fill too much. The close up shows the semi-open grain, I'm so pleased with this. I used more layers of wax/buffing on the back for more protection and because the Korina and the Walnut reacts quite differently to the wax/buffing.
I'm thinking a lot about what to do with the back of the body. Had I spec'ed this one from the beginning I would NOT have wanted that battery cavity, I find those battery boxes ugly. I would have found room for the batteries inside the preamp cavity. I would like a cleaner look on the back though, so I'm considering options:
One thing I could do was to make a Walnut cover for the preamp cavity.
And I could get rid of the neck plate by using 4 countersunk bushings instead of the neck plate. I have actually bought the bushings, but they will get quite close to the edge of the body and I'm not sure that's good. Has anyone used countersunk bushings on one of these bodies where the holes are close to the edge of the body? Did it work out..? Any advise on this would be much appreciated..!?
Another option could be to use one of these cool neck plates http://www.customguitarplanet.com/xtreme-3-d-neck-plates.html With one of those I would not have to risk drilling holes for bushings near the edge of the body, and visually the are not just a ''lump of black'' on the back of the body.
With a Walnut cover for the preamp cavity and bushings for the neck (or a 3d neck plate) the back would be cleaner for sure..! I could also just leave it as is, and in a few weeks time I might not even notice all the black plates and covers on the back... Hmmm...
I have used several layers of wax/buffing on top of the Tung-Oil, and I now have a beautiful depth and nice shine that is not too glossy. I put fewer layers of wax/buffing on the front because I did not want the grain to fill too much. The close up shows the semi-open grain, I'm so pleased with this. I used more layers of wax/buffing on the back for more protection and because the Korina and the Walnut reacts quite differently to the wax/buffing.
I'm thinking a lot about what to do with the back of the body. Had I spec'ed this one from the beginning I would NOT have wanted that battery cavity, I find those battery boxes ugly. I would have found room for the batteries inside the preamp cavity. I would like a cleaner look on the back though, so I'm considering options:
One thing I could do was to make a Walnut cover for the preamp cavity.
And I could get rid of the neck plate by using 4 countersunk bushings instead of the neck plate. I have actually bought the bushings, but they will get quite close to the edge of the body and I'm not sure that's good. Has anyone used countersunk bushings on one of these bodies where the holes are close to the edge of the body? Did it work out..? Any advise on this would be much appreciated..!?
Another option could be to use one of these cool neck plates http://www.customguitarplanet.com/xtreme-3-d-neck-plates.html With one of those I would not have to risk drilling holes for bushings near the edge of the body, and visually the are not just a ''lump of black'' on the back of the body.
With a Walnut cover for the preamp cavity and bushings for the neck (or a 3d neck plate) the back would be cleaner for sure..! I could also just leave it as is, and in a few weeks time I might not even notice all the black plates and covers on the back... Hmmm...
Cagey
Mythical Status
- Messages
- 24,425
MortenB said:
Mr. Chubs recently did bushings rather than a plate (see here) and it turned out nice. But, I think he may have machined his bushings himself. I know he made the inserts. In any event, you can see how it turned out.
I've seen others do it, too. It has always worked out ok. I would think the only thing you have to worry about structurally is the hole itself, and you're not going to change that. You're just going to relieve the face for the bushing. So, as long as the diameter doesn't overhang the edges, I would think you'd be golden.
Thanks for the link..! Seems like it will work OK... I will have a go at it and install the bushings, just need the right forstner bit. The bushings I have is this type...
Working on the tuners now. For the compact headstock it looks off with tuners that stick out too much, so I have taken them apart and I'm making the ''arms'' between the mechanism itself and the adjustment knob shorter. I did the first one, assembled it to test and it works fine. I considered using these smaller round knobs, but I think they look too small and flimsy - this is a bass after all. They might also be too difficult to adjust precisely. So I will keep the original knobs, and just make the arms shorter.
Working on the tuners now. For the compact headstock it looks off with tuners that stick out too much, so I have taken them apart and I'm making the ''arms'' between the mechanism itself and the adjustment knob shorter. I did the first one, assembled it to test and it works fine. I considered using these smaller round knobs, but I think they look too small and flimsy - this is a bass after all. They might also be too difficult to adjust precisely. So I will keep the original knobs, and just make the arms shorter.
Cagey
Mythical Status
- Messages
- 24,425
Yeah, those big ol' strings take some pulling to get right, so you need some leverage on the worm gear. Probably a good choice keeping the bigger ears. I did a baritone guitar some time back and was surprised at the torque it took to tune the thing up relative to a regular guitar. Used regular tuners and they almost felt like they were going to break.
That's true... Takes some pulling, recently I put flats on my P bass, and I was surprised how stiff they were and how much force was needed... The big ears are on..!
It took some work to shorten the arms since they had to be filed square, but it took even more work to get them angled right. For this one I wanted the tuners horizontal when the bass is vertical, and since the Schallers need some holes drilled on the back of the headstock it was not easy to figure out a way to get it all lined up. I ended up drawing some parallel lines on the headstock to aim the tuners after and it worked out fine. Here they are with the ''arms'' shortened 10mm. I still need to drill new 2mm holes and tap 2,5 mm threads in the ends of the axles. That will be ''interesting..!
My small Ashdown rig that I use for home practice in the background, love the 30W Little Bastard tube amp.
It took some work to shorten the arms since they had to be filed square, but it took even more work to get them angled right. For this one I wanted the tuners horizontal when the bass is vertical, and since the Schallers need some holes drilled on the back of the headstock it was not easy to figure out a way to get it all lined up. I ended up drawing some parallel lines on the headstock to aim the tuners after and it worked out fine. Here they are with the ''arms'' shortened 10mm. I still need to drill new 2mm holes and tap 2,5 mm threads in the ends of the axles. That will be ''interesting..!
My small Ashdown rig that I use for home practice in the background, love the 30W Little Bastard tube amp.
I'm working on different small details while waiting for the pick up's and preamp to arrive. One thing that I have been putting off was to do the routing for the truss rod at the heal of the neck - I guess I was afraid I would f*** it up 
Luckily I had the perfect bit for the job, so it was really easy to do.
Also, I have installed the bushings for the neck screws, thanks for the advise on this one Cagey. Since the body has the contoured heel it would not be possible to install the bushings flush with the body. I choose to set the bushings a bit deeper and then round of the edges. Otherwise one side (one point actually) would be flush with the body and the rest countersunk by up to a few mm. I think this worked out well. Now I just need to do a bit of finishing wet sanding with tung-oil and 1000 grit, and after that some wax and buffing to bring this area up to the same finish as the rest of the walnut body...
Luckily I had the perfect bit for the job, so it was really easy to do. Also, I have installed the bushings for the neck screws, thanks for the advise on this one Cagey. Since the body has the contoured heel it would not be possible to install the bushings flush with the body. I choose to set the bushings a bit deeper and then round of the edges. Otherwise one side (one point actually) would be flush with the body and the rest countersunk by up to a few mm. I think this worked out well. Now I just need to do a bit of finishing wet sanding with tung-oil and 1000 grit, and after that some wax and buffing to bring this area up to the same finish as the rest of the walnut body...
While I'm waiting for the pick up's and preamp to arrive I got a bit of time playing around with a brand new Streamliner 900 that I just bought ($550 brand new from a GB dealer in the US, great price..!). Here it is together with my ''Warmoth family''. Funny, the Streamliner sounds more tubey than my Little Bastard 30W all tube amp. Can't wait to try the Streamliner in a band situation when playing with the band on tuesday evening :glasses9:
Cagey
Mythical Status
- Messages
- 24,425
Solid state amps are getting better all the time. Good thing, too. I just can't imagine tubes are going to be that easy to get in the near future, and it's only going to get worse as time goes on. Quality is going to fall lower than it already has, availability is going to decline, prices are going to rise...
Even if by some bizarre unforeseeable circumstance none of that happens (even though it already is), tube amps are a pain in the ass. You never know when they're going to fail, you just know they will, so you have to carry a spare. They aren't consistent over their working life. They're heavy as guilt. They draw a lotta power. They sound good, so we put up with them, but what if you didn't have to? Wouldn't that be great?
It is.
Even if by some bizarre unforeseeable circumstance none of that happens (even though it already is), tube amps are a pain in the ass. You never know when they're going to fail, you just know they will, so you have to carry a spare. They aren't consistent over their working life. They're heavy as guilt. They draw a lotta power. They sound good, so we put up with them, but what if you didn't have to? Wouldn't that be great?
It is.
Yes, no, hmmm and maybe... on the tubes getting scarse thing...
I've been working with electronics for 30 years, and have been designing and building several tube amps over the years (for high-end two channel audio systems)... Through all these years it has been debated that ''there is a shortage of tubes'', ''what to do with my amp when there are no more tubes'' etc etc. The fact is, that there are more tubes on the market than ever, and that some of the new production tubes are very, very good sounding, some are IMHO better sounding than most of the NOS tubes.
For instance, the TJ (some times labeled ''Full Music'') 12AX7 are amongst the best sounding tubes ever produced. They are in current production, cheaper than most NOS, much more reliable and last for around 10.000 hours of operation. I might get 3 of them for my Streamliner, and unless one of them should fail (even the most rugged tubes can fail) they will last for decades. The crap tubes the Streamliner is delivered with will be used as back up's.
We are lucky that the tubes used in amps for guitar and bass are the most common types, not expensive and easy to get hold on, many of the good ones are current production...
But a BIG YES to the fact that tube amps are a pain to drag around. I'm done with that..! That's why I have the Little Bastard in my home rig so I can enjoy the sound of a full tube amp. The Streamliner will go into the system where we play in the band.
I've been working with electronics for 30 years, and have been designing and building several tube amps over the years (for high-end two channel audio systems)... Through all these years it has been debated that ''there is a shortage of tubes'', ''what to do with my amp when there are no more tubes'' etc etc. The fact is, that there are more tubes on the market than ever, and that some of the new production tubes are very, very good sounding, some are IMHO better sounding than most of the NOS tubes.
For instance, the TJ (some times labeled ''Full Music'') 12AX7 are amongst the best sounding tubes ever produced. They are in current production, cheaper than most NOS, much more reliable and last for around 10.000 hours of operation. I might get 3 of them for my Streamliner, and unless one of them should fail (even the most rugged tubes can fail) they will last for decades. The crap tubes the Streamliner is delivered with will be used as back up's.
We are lucky that the tubes used in amps for guitar and bass are the most common types, not expensive and easy to get hold on, many of the good ones are current production...
But a BIG YES to the fact that tube amps are a pain to drag around. I'm done with that..! That's why I have the Little Bastard in my home rig so I can enjoy the sound of a full tube amp. The Streamliner will go into the system where we play in the band.
Cagey
Mythical Status
- Messages
- 24,425
There's a lot to be said about a lot of technologies whose time has come and gone, and many who wish things would stay the same for reasons that make perfect sense to them. But, the current reality is usually irrepressibly different.
I've got even more time in than you do with electronics, amplifiers and music (not that it matters), and as much as I've loved it all I have to defer to the state of the art. It's beyond me how they do it, but why should I care? Results are what matters.
I'm sure tubes will be around for at least a little while yet, but the smart money is on their rapid extinction. Amp manufacturers aren't going to give you a clue, because they're market-driven and everybody wants tube amps right now. But, there are only between 2 and 4 manufacturers of them now, depending on who you talk to, and even if you buy into the 4 manufacturer idea, they're in places where it's questionable how long they'll exist. My guess is they'll be there until the military doesn't need them, which shouldn't be long even in the most backward of countries.
Guitar players often have huge egos, and think their needs are paramount. "We use lotsa tubes! There'll always be a market for them! Demand is HUGE!" Horsefeathers. If the only market for 6L6s, EL34s and 12AX7s was guitar amps, it's unlikely they'd even make them. The Russian and Chinese military need them; that's the only reason they still exist. Once that equipment is replaced, they'll stop making tubes and the new kids on the block will have to use Wikipedia to find out what the damned things even were. Then, the more technical amongst them will laugh.
I've got even more time in than you do with electronics, amplifiers and music (not that it matters), and as much as I've loved it all I have to defer to the state of the art. It's beyond me how they do it, but why should I care? Results are what matters.
I'm sure tubes will be around for at least a little while yet, but the smart money is on their rapid extinction. Amp manufacturers aren't going to give you a clue, because they're market-driven and everybody wants tube amps right now. But, there are only between 2 and 4 manufacturers of them now, depending on who you talk to, and even if you buy into the 4 manufacturer idea, they're in places where it's questionable how long they'll exist. My guess is they'll be there until the military doesn't need them, which shouldn't be long even in the most backward of countries.
Guitar players often have huge egos, and think their needs are paramount. "We use lotsa tubes! There'll always be a market for them! Demand is HUGE!" Horsefeathers. If the only market for 6L6s, EL34s and 12AX7s was guitar amps, it's unlikely they'd even make them. The Russian and Chinese military need them; that's the only reason they still exist. Once that equipment is replaced, they'll stop making tubes and the new kids on the block will have to use Wikipedia to find out what the damned things even were. Then, the more technical amongst them will laugh.
I see that you have your mind made up on what is up and down, and what is the future of tubes... I'm not so sure... None of us knows much about the future. It's true that in the very ''commercial market'' there are just a few manufactures of tubes these days, they are in Russia and the same (not very good tubes) are sold under all the ''big old names'' such as; Mullard, Tung-Sol etc etc. But looking into niche players targeting the high end audio market, there are some very interesting tube manufactures, most of them from China. For instance TJ as I mentioned before - very, very high quality tubes, the best sounding I have ever tried, there are plenty of them, and the manufactures are in it for the long run.
Actually, there are also very, very many NOS tubes in the market these years, because Military is begging to sell their stocks. However, these are often re branded, so one really have to know what is what. Recently I bought some excellent quality E188CC, manufactured by Mullard in the UK and labeled R.T.C for the French military, there are many of these at the moment, and they are A LOT cheaper than the same tubes sold with the Mullard UK logo. I use them in my Phono stage and in the Conrad-Johnson tube mono blocks in my high end stereo systems. They last 10000 hours, so I have stock now for around 50 years, so I'm good for now when it comes to tubes :icon_smile:
anyway...
There is a bit of progress on the bass again, some nice EMG parts arrived and I have installed the preamp system and the pick up's. This is beginning to look more and more like a bass..!
Actually, there are also very, very many NOS tubes in the market these years, because Military is begging to sell their stocks. However, these are often re branded, so one really have to know what is what. Recently I bought some excellent quality E188CC, manufactured by Mullard in the UK and labeled R.T.C for the French military, there are many of these at the moment, and they are A LOT cheaper than the same tubes sold with the Mullard UK logo. I use them in my Phono stage and in the Conrad-Johnson tube mono blocks in my high end stereo systems. They last 10000 hours, so I have stock now for around 50 years, so I'm good for now when it comes to tubes :icon_smile:
anyway...
There is a bit of progress on the bass again, some nice EMG parts arrived and I have installed the preamp system and the pick up's. This is beginning to look more and more like a bass..!
