Fretting a compound radius fingerboard

[m4rk0]

so I am doing some research for my upcoming project, and realized that fretting a compound radius neck may be a little different to fretting a regular neck.. does anybody have any experience?

per example, I was considering buying a set of precut fret wires (like this: http://www.amazon.com/Fender-Strat-Tele-Guitar-Jumbo/dp/B003BFZMN6 ) but most of these are pre-radiused, which is nice, because I do not have any tools to pre-bend them.  is it a problem that the radius of the frets do not exactly match the radius of the slots?

Also, how do I level the frets.. most leveling tools are for a specific radius, right??

 

[rapfohl09]

I'm tuning in on this because these are some good questions that I have never even really thought about. You might want to email Warmoth, since they are kind of the guru's on this :laughing7:

 

[Jusatele]

I have not fretted on, but I had a professional setup done on Barn Door after I had it assembled and the Luthier said it was a very hard thing to do  as he could not use a preset radius file on it and had to restring and file each fret as he worked the neck.
He loved the action of the guitar when finished and said the compound radius was worth the effort, but said it is a bitch to set up.

So I would think that to fret a compound radius you would need a fret bending tool that was adjustable and a measuring device to set it each time, or have bought a pre made set of frets. Anyway it should be fun and please do a thread on it as a lot of us would like to see it.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Can't help with installing the frets but here's a great video that's part of an entire series assembling a complete guitar and he goes over leveling the frets on a compound neck in detail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIuDG4QLHsU&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

 

[stubhead]

There are some shorter (3" long) leveling blocks of various radii, and I believe you do the obvious - feather the varying radii over the length of the neck, changing the blocks over the course of the neck. I would buy Dan Erlewine's "Complete Guitar Repair" or at least the short fretting-only book, as he covers this. I've seen the math on doing these, I don't think the radiused blocks are necessary if you grasp the idea. I've done level/crown/polish jobs six times now on Warmoth compound radius necks, but that's easy, because the pre-existing string paths cut out the divots in the frets, and as long as you get it straight to start, removing the divots conforms to the string paths. You just have to think about what you're doing, how the strings vibrate.... and trust your eye, luthiers who have sighted down a few thousand necks can still outdo a Plek machine, because they know how. There's almost some "philosophy of fretting" involved, like I'm a fan of fret "fall away", knocking down another 4 - 5 thousandths of an inch above the 10th fret or so. Others don't see it as useful - it may depend on your trussrod's action. Pyramidal vs. oval fret tops are another choice issue.

If you think about it, each string still has a straight path - so if you have a narrow straightedge that you are sure of, you don't really need to be a mathematician. It's fairly common for a luthier to overbend the frets slightly before installing, i.e. on a 12" radius neck he might bend them to a 10" radius - you always want the fret ends to seat all the way down, for sure. It's important to get the slots and fret tangs as matched as possible, the slot should be just wider than the tang but as much narrower than the beads as possible. Are you hammering and planning on the beads alone to hold, or pressing and glueing?

http://www.lutherie.net/fret.chart.html

EDIT: (I just watched this guy's videos and he basically does it by skill and feel and checking, not by an unchanging process - and using the Sharpie multiple times, it's not foolproof but still - you just take off what's not supposed to be there, and the Sharpie tells you what that is...)

 

[m4rk0]

Thanks all!!

I have access to a fret press and some tools. the neck is already slotted by Warmoth.. I wonder if those slots are generic and will fit all kinds of frets, or just dunlop...

 

[crimson guitars]

If you're using a fret press there may be a difference, the caul that pushes the fret in should be the same radius as the board, but at Crimson Guitars we just use a hammer and there is absolutely no difference.. though it's a good idea to spooge some glue in the fret slot to fill any empty space left after fretting, this gives a much stronger and more stable neck, never a bad thing!

 

[swarfrat]

What about when you go to refret?

 

[ptirman]

I hope you post some photos of a work in progress?

 

[crimson guitars]

I use the glue when refretting as well.. just standard no more nails, it dries nice and solid but is brittle enough that when you pull the frets out it just breaks.. tone and stability is the reason for the glue not to hold the frets in..  The first part of the video will be online a bit later today, I'll post the link.. If you want to see step by step photo's of my work at Crimson Guitars I've taken photo's every day since January 2008  http://www.crimsonguitars.com/workshop-diary/

 

[swarfrat]

I got the purpose, I was just wondering about damaging wood when you pull em out. Sounds like it works for you, but it also sounds like the wrong glue could cause problems.

 

[crimson guitars]

most luthiers I know use glue and just push the frets into a slot that is slightly bigger than the tang of the fret, they hold the frets in with clamps etc until the glue has dried.. epoxy and superglue are favourites.. the long and short is that whatever the glue professional repairers given a re-fret job will expect the frets to be glued in and will heat the frets up to loosen the glue.. it may be an idea to leave a note in the case detailing the glue/method you used.. though it sounds like you'd be doing the refret yourself if it ever becomes necessary.?

 

[Steve_Karl]

If you want to see step by step photo's of my work at Crimson Guitars I've taken photo's every day since January 2008  http://www.crimsonguitars.com/workshop-diary/

Very nice!
You've got some great pics out there and many nicely built guitars.

 

[crimson guitars]

Thank you!  we're getting there slowly, they never said it would take ten years of hard graft just to learn what real quality in a guitar should be.. or at least how to get there..  anyway, I've just built a whole new section for our site, a bit content poor still but should be interesting.. the videos following me fretting Robert Fripps new custom les paul type guitar are here.. http://crimsonguitars.com/buildaguitar/videos/fretting-video-guide  a bit of shameless advertising but I think you may find them interesting..