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Fret wiring heights

Lovis1995

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I am wondering, wether someone here knows well about the diffrent degrees of fret height considering the their different qualities. Like at which height it would get harder to play a fast chord+hammer/pull technique or the diffrent sound qualities.
I hope you can help me there.
Thanks!
 
That has to be up to the person playing and what degree of technique that person has.
I believe that those that are very "good" ie able to play fast and so on, don't want their frets to be too low. In other words, I believe, that the lower the frets the harder it is to do a lot of difficult technical stuff.
Case in point; Yngwie has a scalloped fretboard, that in essence makes the "frets" really high. Paul Gilbert has tall frets according to him.

I started out 44 years ago with very low frets, but now I always choose SS6105 frets, ie Stainless Steel frets that are not that low.
 
I'm on the opposite end.
I like the taller SS6115's or the SS6100's.

It's all subjective though.  EVH uses quite small frets considering his tapping style.  Other's gotta have the string up off of the fingerboard like myself.  It's all a matter of preference.
 
I'm another convert to the 6105s. I had originally planned to go 6230s because I hate 'big' frets but changed my mind on advice from Cagey. So glad I did. They're still narrow enough that they don't feel like the jumbos I dislike, but tall enough to allow a lighter touch generally, or to pull the note sharp with extra pressure if that's your bag.
 
In my experience, you can do anything with any frets, but some things are more difficult with shorter frets, keeping in mind that "difficult" is a relative term. Players with a lot of time in grade can often do pretty much whatever they want with whatever's at hand. It's just easier with taller frets.

For example, you can "hammer" or "tap" any size frets, although hammering benefits from slightly higher action, while tapping is less demanding. It's a velocity thing. It's also more difficult to "pull" notes on shorter frets. You just can't get as much grip on the string with your fretting finger to where you can give the string a yank and let go of it to sound it so it plays a bit weak. All of these "weakness" effects can be overcome with the judicious application of (electronic signal) compression, but that's an artificial fix. A solid mechanical fix is taller frets and proper technique.

It's also more difficult to hang on to the strings with lower frets for bends or vibrato. Less finger meat on the string and more friction between the fingertip and the fretboard, so you might lose the string during a bend or not be able to push as far or as fast as you'd like.

All in all, taller frets are just easier to play. Width doesn't really matter, unless you're playing so much and on nickel-silver fretwire that you need the excess metal so they can be redressed multiple times before replacement. Here, stainless or EVO wire is the fix. Plus, those alloys are much harder so they not only wear a lot longer between dressings, they're very slick and easy to play. Bends and vibrato will feel as though you've gone down a gauge set in string size. Note: SS frets don't affect "tone" - that's a myth propagated by people who've either never played stainless frets or whose only experience with them was on some exotic guitar that sounded unusual for other reasons like composite fretboards, graphite necks, brass hardware, active pickups, etc.

The only downside to taller frets, if you can call it that, is that you may have to lighten up bit on your playing style. If you have a tendency to manhandle the neck, you'll frequently but intermittently find yourself out of tune. Even if you're not particularly aggressive, some fingers are just inherently stronger than others, and will press down harder. With a tall fret, this means you're going to sharp the note. Actually, it happens with all frets, it's just more noticeable on tall ones as you sharp them more than usual. But, that's easier to train out of yourself than you might think. Nobody wants to bust their ass developing titanium callouses so they can get notes and chords to sound clearly, so over time as your ears and fingertips tell you that you don't need to work so hard, you just naturally stop doing it. Another happy side effect is as you relax and get more accurate, your playing speed will improve.

So, get yourself some stainless or EVO (gold) 6100s. You'll be glad you did.

 
which of these heights are like medium jumbo or jumbo frets?
6230=jumbo, 6150=medium-jumbo?
Thanks so far!
 

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Wow, thank you very much for your elaborate awnser Cagey!
One last thing: I thought the higher the number, the taller the fret.
But reading your comment I guess it's the other way around?
 
On the Warmoth website, go to Learn.  From there select a neck, and then frets.  There's a more detailed description of fret sizes, including sizing.  Here's a handy visual:

catFretSizeAllNickel.jpg


Personal note: Cagey talked me into EVO 6100 on a bass neck he did for me.  I love them.  I'm considering having a neck or two refretted with 6100.  Here's a pic right after he installed the frets:

oI79ELS.jpg
 
Lovis1995 said:
Wow, thank you very much for your elaborate awnser Cagey!
One last thing: I thought the higher the number, the taller the fret.
But reading your comment I guess it's the other way around?

You're welcome!

As for part numbering schemes, who knows what runs through the minds of product managers? Having worked for/with a number of manufacturing firms over the years, I know the best of encoding schemes can fall prey to changes in technology, business focus, customer requirements, legal issues, marketing issues, convenience, computers... the list is long. As soon as you think you have something that makes sense and will stand the test of time, an exception comes along and makes a mess of things, then another, then another...it's enough to piss off a saint <grin>
 
Jescar frets numbering largely follows their size.  Dunlop isn't the only provider, just saying.
 
My experience - playing short small vintage (6230) frets for a long long time I've developed a certain greasy / feel / slant / attitude,
... hangin' off the back of the beat ... kinda thang ...
It's not nearly as easy for me to get that happening on tall frets.

Tall frets make me want to speak the kings english with proper accuracy.
Shorties make me wanna drawl in da slang a thangs.

It's not that either can't be done on the other with a little mental adjustment.
It's just what they (for me) tend to lead to more naturally.


 
I continue to struggle with this or remain a "work in progress." I like touching the fretboard and have had to learn to lighten up to play in an intonated manner. My first parts strat has 6150 stainless frets and the others have 6105. I like both but keep ordering 6105. It seems a good all around fret. I love chords but also do bends and lead lines so as I learn to lighten up a little 6105 works for whatever I do. When I switch to the 6150s it feels like smooth glass when I slide a note up the neck and as long as I am not pushing down too hard things are golden. I would like to try the 6100 fret sometime although that may be too much for me. I keep my eyes peeled for an old Fender in a local shop to try just to get the feel of "vintage " low frets.

I did try a Les Paul in a shop one time that had such low frets and low action that bending seemed out of the question. Action height is another matter, I probably have some variation of a medium action on my guitars with one being a bit higher. I can get under the strings for a bend and chording is not insufferable. At this point I barely touch the strings when I do cowboy chords in the first position but get grabbier further up the neck and that seems OK and my lower position chords are sounding much better. The string is definitely getting enough height to ring out well. Makes me work more but that has its benefits.
 
musicispeace said:
I did try a Les Paul in a shop one time that had such low frets and low action that bending seemed out of the question.

Gibson did that on purpose for a while, and as a result some Les Pauls were referred to as "fretless wonders". About 100 years ago I had a girlfriend  with an SG set up that way. Made the guitar almost effortless to play, but even against an Ebony fretboard bends and vibrato were almost out of the question. Just couldn't get a grip on the strings. I'm not sure who their target audience was with that setup. I would think perhaps jazz players might like it since they're usually very accurate players who don't do a lot of bending/vibrato, but I can't imagine jazz players wanting either of those guitar designs. The girl liked it because she played mostly folk music and wanted something easier to hold and play than an acoustic.
 
Cagey said:
bends and vibrato were almost out of the question.

My guess it that the action was just too low.
A higher action on the right low fretted guitar and the bends and vib are amazing, as is the dynamic range,
but you have to get used to it, and forget about *initial* preconceptions of comfort and the typical measurements.
It would be very foreign feeling compared to a tall fret low action guitar.

The last time I had the frets leveled on my first warmoth with 6230s on it it came back from the shop with the action so low that it was
painfully difficult to play if trying for my usual style. Yea, beating fingertips into raw meat painful.
But, crank the action back up to where it works and it gets much easier and much better sounding. That was probably in the early 90s.

It's about to go in again when I get the chance but the neck is all that is making the trip.
 

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I just ordered a bass neck with 6230s because I wanted to get the lowest action possible short of fretless. I like my action set very low. I have a Fender Dimension set up with the action so low that if I play too hard the strings buzz against the frets and I love it that way.

Seems like most people here want taller frets. Are there any advantages (other than lower action) for shorter frets?
 
Some people may find glissando easier to do with shorter frets, but I don't know if I'd call that an "advantage" so much as a personal preference in feel. I can slide on 6100s just fine, but some feel like they're running into speed bumps on frets that large.

Also, the "action" is the distance from the string to the fret top, not to the fretboard. I can set up a neck with 6100s to have the same action as one that's fretted with 6230s. How close an action you can achieve without excessive buzz depends more on the quality of the fretwork and how much note deadening you can tolerate than anything else.
 
Redleg37 said:
I just ordered a bass neck with 6230s because I wanted to get the lowest action possible short of fretless. I like my action set very low. I have a Fender Dimension set up with the action so low that if I play too hard the strings buzz against the frets and I love it that way.

Seems like most people here want taller frets. Are there any advantages (other than lower action) for shorter frets?

For bass, I've had 2 necks on my music man stingray, the one with the similar to 6230, which is now repaired and back on the bass,
does the slap and pull sound much better than when I had the temporary replacement neck on there that had large frets.

The reason I had the other neck was that the skunk stripe on the original neck began to pop out of the back and the stripe needed replaced with a new piece of wood. Took a long time to find someone frisky enough to do the repair. Most said they couldn't do it and the ones that said they could do it would have charged more than buying a new neck so I bought the new neck but didn't specify about fret size.
Eventually I found an old guy in the burbs that was a mandolin and acoustic guitar builder as in from scratch builder, and he charged me $25.00 to do it and he did it while I waited and watched. Amazing!
So the original neck is back on there, it's a '76 stingray, and I sold the other neck on eBay.
 
Steve_Karl said:
Eventually I found an old guy in the burbs that was a mandolin and acoustic guitar builder as in from scratch builder, and he charged me $25.00 to do it and he did it while I waited and watched. Amazing!

That's so cool. Love those old luthiers with infinite knowledge and skills.
A cool story. Thanks for sharing.
 
My mind plays tricks with me with high frets, although it's the bottom of the string to the top of the fret that matters, with high frets I always feel the action is way high with the strings so far from the fretboard.


:icon_scratch:
 
amigarobbo said:
My mind plays tricks with me with high frets, although it's the bottom of the string to the top of the fret that matters, with high frets I always feel the action is way high with the strings so far from the fretboard.


:icon_scratch:

Same here. My 6100 guitar feels higher than my 6230 guitars and it's actually not the case.
 
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