Help needed with "inventive" wiring for 1-humbucker guitar

[stratamania]

In light of everything you contribute to these pages you should definitely set up a PayPal /Buy-me-a-coffee page link @stratamania, so that everyone that wishes could show their gratitude to you.

I may just do that

 

[VanHeGen]

So, Coffee (the guitar) is assembled and I have played with it for a while and I am extremely happy with it, overall.

The wiring (described in post #18 in this thread) worked perfectly, which of course could be assumed as it was provided by @stratamania
Here are the switch positions, as a refresher:

1. ”Solo/Blower Switch": In this position the pickup would not be altered in any way, producing the "full sound"
2. "Solo/Rhythm": In this position there would be only a fixed 500K resistance (or similar) to "tame the tone" a bit
3. ”Rhythm/Clean": In this position I would be able to use a Volume knob, a Tone knob, and a "Spin-a-Split" knob

Position 3 works great, I get a wide variety of tones (beyond what @aarontunes means by it ), and Pos 2 sounds pretty close (with a 0022 µf capacitor) to Pos3 with everything on 10. So I am very happy with those two positions.

However, Pos1, the "blower switch", although it added some volume and depth to the tone, it did not really make that much of a difference, so I have a new idea for what it should be used for. But I would - again - need some help verifying that is it doable and/or how it should be done.

Basically, I would like Pos1 it to sound like Pos3 with everything on 10, except the Tone, which would be on (around) 5. I would use that as a bluesy tone for solos. Using the "description" above, it would look something like this (only Pos1 is changed):

1. ”Bluesy Solo": In this position the pickup would sound as if the Volume would be on 10, but the Tone on 5. But just like Pos2, totally independent of the Volume and Tone (or S-a-S) controls
2. "Solo/Rhythm": In this position there would be only a fixed 500K resistance (or similar) to "tame the tone" a bit
3. ”Rhythm/Clean": In this position I would be able to use a Volume knob, a Tone knob, and a "Spin-a-Split" knob

I have a couple of ideas of how it could be done (at least in theory), but I would need some help verifying them (as well as better ideas):

1. Simulating the tone: I surfed the entire Net again and found a couple of (somewhat) related postings (this and this ), but it looked to me like trying to figure out the correct recistors/caps/whatever would be very complicated and time-consuming. Now, if it actually is pretty simple to figure out, I would like to go that route.
2. Adding another Tone control: If option 1 turns out to be too complicated, I was wondering if I could hide another tone control in the guitar cavity (not drilling a hole in the guitar for a knob), set it on 5, and then somehow connect Pos1 through that tone control and then to the output jack? This would be nice, as I could fine-tune tone the tone control to the exact tone I want, and then just leave it there.

What do the experts here say about those two options, from a doability point of view? Could it be done, which one would be easier? How could it be done? Other solutions?

Again, many thanks in advance for your help!
And yes, I am sure some people will wonder "but, why?", but let´s just say that this is my guitar, so I decide what I want to do with it

 

[Rick]

I’m not a wiring expert but I’m intrigued and will be following. They all sound interesting.

 

[stratamania]

Glad to hear the wiring worked. And lets see some pics of the guitar.

On the revised wiring off the top of my head you would need something similar to position 2 but instead of just a resistor, using a resistor and capacitor combination between the switch position 1 and ground. Perhaps a 250k and a 0.22 cap to start with and go from there.

Check the posted links, at least one is not working.

 

[VanHeGen]

Glad to hear the wiring worked. And lets see some pics of the guitar.

On the revised wiring off the top of my head you would need something similar to position 2 but instead of just a resistor, using a resistor and capacitor combination between the switch position 1 and ground. Perhaps a 250k and a 0.22 cap to start with and go from there.

Check the posted links, at least one is not working.

I will definitely post some pictures of the guitar when it is finished, but in addition to this mod it needs to have the name engraved to be finished and ready for a photoshoot. And I need to read the rules about the ”post your build”… yes, I know where they are, just need to read it.

Thank you @stratamania so much for the ”top of your head” wiring, and it sounds like a very close ballpark! I’ll give that a thought.

What if I wanted to go for the 2nd option? Would adding a 500k cap simulating a volume control, and adding a ”hidden” tone control to Pos2 in the wiring diagram work? Is there anything else that needs to be connected and/or considered? This way I wouldn’t have to try it out many times - especially as it actually is my guitar tech who does the job …

The 2nd link is now fixed. For some reason copying the URL on that page did not work, I had to copy the link to the actual posting on that page.

 

[aarontunes]

Position 3 works great, I get a wide variety of tones (beyond what @aarontunes means by it )....

Ah....so you're including the Gary Cherone album?

Or....wait....do you mean to say your guitar can cover Starfleet and VOA? Now that would be versatile!!

 

[VanHeGen]

@aarontunes Yes, Coffee is an incredibly versatile guitar!

 

[stratamania]

What if I wanted to go for the 2nd option? Would adding a 500k cap simulating a volume control, and adding a ”hidden” tone control to Pos2 in the wiring diagram work? Is there anything else that needs to be connected and/or considered? This way I wouldn’t have to try it out many times - especially as it actually is my guitar tech who does the job …

First, you need to consider what a tone control usually consists of. It has typically with a humbucker a 500K pot and a capacitor such as 0.22uF.

A tone control capacitor is between hot and ground, which filters the higher frequencies to ground. What the pot does is control how much of that signal in the first place gets to the capacitor to be filtered to ground.

A potentiometer is a variable resistor.

Basically, I would like Pos1 it to sound like Pos3 with everything on 10, except the Tone, which would be on (around) 5. I would use that as a bluesy tone for solos. Using the "description" above, it would look something like this (only Pos1 is changed):

So if a humbucker typically uses a 500K pot if it is half open/closed then if it was fully linear theoretically you might have 250K resistance (in practice it likely will be something different). But for practical off the top of my head purposes, that is why I mentioned 250K.

So if it was 250K, put a resistor like in position 1 at position 2, and then an 0.22uF cap in series in between the resistor and ground.

I suppose another way to figure out the final value might be using a 500K pot with a 0.22uF cap and dial in the tone. Then measure what the resistance is on the pot, and then use that or a similar value in your fixed wiring.

 

[VanHeGen]

First, you need to consider what a tone control usually consists of. It has typically with a humbucker a 500K pot and a capacitor such as 0.22uF.

A tone control capacitor is between hot and ground, which filters the higher frequencies to ground. What the pot does is control how much of that signal in the first place gets to the capacitor to be filtered to ground.

A potentiometer is a variable resistor.



So if a humbucker typically uses a 500K pot if it is half open/closed then if it was fully linear theoretically you might have 250K resistance (in practice it likely will be something different). But for practical off the top of my head purposes, that is why I mentioned 250K.

So if it was 250K, put a resistor like in position 1 at position 2, and then an 0.22uF cap in series in between the resistor and ground.

I suppose another way to figure out the final value might be using a 500K pot with a 0.22uF cap and dial in the tone. Then measure what the resistance is on the pot, and then use that or a similar value in your fixed wiring.

Excellent, thank you! I’ll discuss this with my guitar tech!

 

[Rick]

What about these six options
1) one north coil
2) one south coil
3) north and south together normal series option
4) north and south together series out of phase
4) north and south together parallel out of phase

 

[VanHeGen]

What about these six options
1) one north coil
2) one south coil
3) north and south together normal series option
4) north and south together series out of phase
4) north and south together parallel out of phase

Interesting options, thank you @Rick ! I had not even thought about the out of phase-ones!
The series/paralell is something I have tried and I haven’t enjoyed that much.

The Spin-a-Split that I have implemented is by far the best mod I have encountered (bass contour control being the 2nd best). By having one coil on full and being able to roll down the second coil makes it possible to find a great tone, something that a coil split or tap will not, in my opinion.
And as I have a volume control (with treble bleed) and a tone control (with a no-load) in that Pos3, too, I can really shape the tone any way I need.

Having tested the 3 positions, the only thing I need now is a bluesy solo tone in Pos2, which @stratamania covered, earlier. After that I can easily go from clean/edge-of-breakup crunch to crunch/solo and cover everything from slow and bluesy stuff to hard rock with Coffee.

 

[VanHeGen]

First, you need to consider what a tone control usually consists of. It has typically with a humbucker a 500K pot and a capacitor such as 0.22uF.

A tone control capacitor is between hot and ground, which filters the higher frequencies to ground. What the pot does is control how much of that signal in the first place gets to the capacitor to be filtered to ground.

A potentiometer is a variable resistor.



So if a humbucker typically uses a 500K pot if it is half open/closed then if it was fully linear theoretically you might have 250K resistance (in practice it likely will be something different). But for practical off the top of my head purposes, that is why I mentioned 250K.

So if it was 250K, put a resistor like in position 1 at position 2, and then an 0.22uF cap in series in between the resistor and ground.

I suppose another way to figure out the final value might be using a 500K pot with a 0.22uF cap and dial in the tone. Then measure what the resistance is on the pot, and then use that or a similar value in your fixed wiring.

After discussing with my guitar tech I decided to go with a "Schatten Thumbweel Controls", which is basically a volume and tone "pot" in mini-format, which can be hidden in the cavity of the guitar. I´ll set the volume on 10 and the Tone on 5 (or similar) and forget it after that. The suggestion by @stratamania would most probably had gotten me very close, but with this solution I will get exactly the tone that I want.

That will be the preset in Pos2, and the updated positions in the switch are these:

1. "Solo/Rhythm": In this position there is only a fixed 500K resistance to "tame the tone" a bit
2. ”Bluesy Solo": In this position the pickup sounds as if the Volume would be on 10, but the Tone on 5 (in the Schatten Thumbwheel). But just like Pos1, totally independent of the Volume and Tone (or S-a-S) controls (that are dedicated to Pos3).
3. ”Rhythm/Clean": In this position I can use a Volume knob, a Tone knob (no-load), and a "Spin-a-Split" knob

Using ”a wide variety” use cases (@aarontunes ) I can play ”Hot For Teacher” by switching between Pos1 and Pos3, and ”Little Dreamer” by switching between Pos2 and Pos3.
Only proper guitar skills need to be added

 

[stratamania]

After discussing with my guitar tech I decided to go with a "Schatten Thumbweel Controls", which is basically a volume and tone "pot" in mini-format, which can be hidden in the cavity of the guitar. I´ll set the volume on 10 and the Tone on 5 (or similar) and forget it after that. The suggestion by @stratamania would most probably had gotten me very close, but with this solution I will get exactly the tone that I want.

That will be the preset in Pos2, and the updated positions in the switch are these:

1. "Solo/Rhythm": In this position there is only a fixed 500K resistance to "tame the tone" a bit
2. ”Bluesy Solo": In this position the pickup sounds as if the Volume would be on 10, but the Tone on 5 (in the Schatten Thumbwheel). But just like Pos1, totally independent of the Volume and Tone (or S-a-S) controls (that are dedicated to Pos3).
3. ”Rhythm/Clean": In this position I can use a Volume knob, a Tone knob (no-load), and a "Spin-a-Split" knob

Using ”a wide variety” use cases (@aarontunes ) I can play ”Hot For Teacher” by switching between Pos1 and Pos3, and ”Little Dreamer” by switching between Pos2 and Pos3.
Only proper guitar skills need to be added

Ah, so position 2 moves to position 1 as it was before and the Schatten Thumbwheels wired as a volume and tone in position 2 that you will preset (or could change). This would need to be wired in between the jumper across the poles for position 1 where currently there is a black jumper wire.

 

[VanHeGen]

Ah, so position 2 moves to position 1 as it was before and the Schatten Thumbwheels wired as a volume and tone in position 2 that you will preset (or could change). This would need to be wired in between the jumper across the poles for position 1 where currently there is a black jumper wire.

Thank you for the update, we shall ensure that it is down like this!

 

[stratamania]

Thank you for the update, we shall ensure that it is down like this!

No problem, that way the Schatten set up will act as a volume and tone only in that position.