Floyd Rose w/o Locking Nut - anybody do this?

JUST DO IT! Ahem... I have long been wanting to try this, as I have long suspected that what I don't like about the Floyds - the way they SOUND - is probably more a result of the locking nut than the bridge. I'm just not sure, because I haven't ever done it.... I do know that in my experience, neck wood & size and proper attention to frets are very important to the way a guitar sounds, and several of the x-spurts on this site agree - neck wood is more important than body wood in determining tone. Hence, sticking a little metal doodad on the nut that eliminates a large part of the neck contribution will leave you sounding like... well. I really like "Crystal Palace" and "Surfing with the Alien" and "Fire Garden" and "7th Son", but not for tone... and you can believe that Satriani and Vai are doing/know everything possible to make a Floyd sound good. And still, some foreigner with an old beater can sound better...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Ujm4HEXGc&feature=related

Featuring a seventeen-minute sax solo in a six minute song... :icon_scratch:
 
I had to fix my brain, there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gDhR1R3S0s&feature=related

"THE" solo starts at 3:35, when you can make that sound you can put a Floyd on either end, dude.
 
stubhead said:
JUST DO IT! Ahem... I have long been wanting to try this, as I have long suspected that what I don't like about the Floyds - the way they SOUND - is probably more a result of the locking nut than the bridge. I'm just not sure, because I haven't ever done it.... I do know that in my experience, neck wood & size and proper attention to frets are very important to the way a guitar sounds, and several of the x-spurts on this site agree - neck wood is more important than body wood in determining tone. Hence, sticking a little metal doodad on the nut that eliminates a large part of the neck contribution will leave you sounding like... well. I really like "Crystal Palace" and "Surfing with the Alien" and "Fire Garden" and "7th Son", but not for tone... and you can believe that Satriani and Vai are doing/know everything possible to make a Floyd sound good. And still, some foreigner with an old beater can sound better...
Click to expand...

I'm afraid we're not going to get that question answered definitively with this build. You have to commit a neck to put the Floyd nut on it; there's no reversing it. That means the experiment would have to run with the guitar built using proper parts, then replace the nut with the Floyd part, leaving everything else the same in both trials. Anything less voids the test. So, unless somebody wants to sacrifice a neck, or has one they want to put a Floyd nut on anyway regardless of the results, then we're not going to know what effect it actually has.
 
Maybe I'm missing something, or my age has kicked in and eaten my brain.  I had a Fender Strat Special with the American Standard trem, LSR nut, and locking tuners.  Nothing I did kept it in tune, even in light trem activity.  With 25 years of guitar experience I'd have expected proper stretching and tuning to prevent this.  I've been a dedicated Floyd (with locking nut) player since 1990.
 
For the guys who say you need a locking nut in this instance, what's the technical explanation why?

What could possibly cause you to not return to tune when using an LSR and locking tuners? The friction in an LSR nut is negligible compared to the string tension and the locking tuners are, well, locked. Unless you can make the strings jump out of the nut slots, what else could go wrong? Are we supposed to worry about the headstock flexing or something? I don't get it.
 
Cagey said:
Schaller's got some interesting "vintage copper" finish parts that might be attractive on this body color...

[pretty pictures omitted]

Can't figure out what they cost or where to buy them, though.
Click to expand...

Everything I've seen on this post and elsewhere suggests you want to find a German vendor or approach Schaller directly (after first exhausting yourself trying to find an authorized distributor), and you should also plan to unload some major ducats.  And even then, some of the more exotic finishes from Schaller are notoriously difficult to procure.  I seem to recall someone on this board having the devil of a time procuring a ruthenium-finished set of Schaller hardware.

Bagman
 
drewfx said:
For the guys who say you need a locking nut in this instance, what's the technical explanation why?

What could possibly cause you to not return to tune when using an LSR and locking tuners? The friction in an LSR nut is negligible compared to the string tension and the locking tuners are, well, locked. Unless you can make the strings jump out of the nut slots, what else could go wrong? Are we supposed to worry about the headstock flexing or something? I don't get it.
Click to expand...

I could imagine that heavy Floyd-abuse might slacken the strings to so great an extent that they come out of the nut slots (or ball-bearing-spaces on an LSR), and then, depending on whether the headstock has sufficiently straight string-pull, not coming back together correctly.  Apart from that, for a more genteel vibrato-arm user, I'm with you, drewfx.

Bagman
 
Fender Strat Special with the American Standard trem, LSR nut, and locking tuners
Click to expand...

That's this setup, right?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x_IVpr1oso

Strangely enough, in the 22 years since Beck first recorded this, I personally have never heard a Floydist who would even attempt anything like it.
Better close-up shots here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymZkF5eLYGU&feature=related
 
stubhead said:
Fender Strat Special with the American Standard trem, LSR nut, and locking tuners
Click to expand...

That's this setup, right?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x_IVpr1oso

Strangely enough, in the 22 years since Beck first recorded this, I personally have never heard a Floydist who would even attempt anything like it.
Better close-up shots here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymZkF5eLYGU&feature=related
Click to expand...

To be fair to the Floydists, I have never heard ANYONE besides Beck attempt anything like it.
 
stubhead said:
I really like "Crystal Palace" and "Surfing with the Alien" and "Fire Garden" and "7th Son", but not for tone... and you can believe that Satriani and Vai are doing/know everything possible to make a Floyd sound good. And still, some foreigner with an old beater can sound better...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Ujm4HEXGc&feature=related
Click to expand...

You're comparing apples and oranges. That video bears absolutely no resemblance to Satch's and Vai's playing, and it's not even in the same genre.


 
bagman67 said:
Everything I've seen on this post and elsewhere suggests you want to find a German vendor or approach Schaller directly (after first exhausting yourself trying to find an authorized distributor), and you should also plan to unload some major ducats.  And even then, some of the more exotic finishes from Schaller are notoriously difficult to procure.  I seem to recall someone on this board having the devil of a time procuring a ruthenium-finished set of Schaller hardware.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've found some European distributors, but it is as you say - they're still not full-line carriers, and what they do have is priced for the very determined. I like what they have, but I think I'm going to have to pass on any thought of exotic-finished Schaller stuff.
 
No, no spandex or big hair for me. At my age, such a sight would frighten even Stephen King <grin>
 
I wonder if there's such a thing as a Floyd replacement that doesn't have the saddle shimming requirement or micro-tuners or big screws sticking out all over the place? Maybe I'll ask in the Hardware folder.
 
Cagey said:
I wonder if there's such a thing as a Floyd replacement that doesn't have the saddle shimming requirement or micro-tuners or big screws sticking out all over the place? Maybe I'll ask in the Hardware folder.
Click to expand...

Maybe you could track down an original Floyd - I have no idea what the cost would be, or if Floyd Rose or one of its licensees still makes 'em.

floydnotun.jpg

 
bagman67 said:
Bingo?

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=15050.0
Click to expand...

That would do the trick. Best price I can find is $172 out of England, though. Bit stiff for such a thing. But, I wouldn't have to modify the body - it would drop right in.
 
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