Disco Scottie
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jay4321 said:
Are that many of you guys really not aware of Dragonforce? They've only been around for about a decade now. I mean, it's nothing I listen to, but they were big guitar news a long time ago.
Floyd Rose w/o Locking Nut - anybody do this?
- Thread starter Cagey
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Are that many of you guys really not aware of Dragonforce? They've only been around for about a decade now. I mean, it's nothing I listen to, but they were big guitar news a long time ago.
I don't think I'd heard of them until I finished Guitar Hero III and one of their tunes was the bonus track during the credits. I have to say, the constant double kick machine gun bothers me more than singer, but only by a hair. I'm not anti-double kick, but a seven minute song of nothing but 16th notes on the kick just gives me a headache.
jay4321
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Cagey said:
I "like" old Alice Cooper in general, but that one record really stands out for me. Only 8 songs on it but 4 are just brilliant, with 2 more that are really good. It didn't have the "cheese" that a lot of his other (still good) material did. It was a legitimately dark album in most spots, though Under My Wheels is pretty much straight-up rock n' roll. It's not held in the same regard as some classic Aerosmith or Sabbath albums by a long shot but as far as I'm concerned it's better. And I really like those bands. Just give me that record and a couple of Bowie's and my 70s collection is good.
sorry to kick an old horse, but I want to chip in regarding the floyd w/o locking nut.
I had a strat a LONG time ago (1 piece quilt maple body, flamed maple neck, floyd, duncan custom in the bridge, sweet guitar, wish I didn't sell it!).
no locking nut, just schaller locking tuners and a graphite nut. divebombs went fine, pullups too, but they weren't as big/deep as with a locking nut (doh, there's more string to pull up or down). but when it came to really just plain 'n simple stability, its fine.
that schaller 'vintage' trem with floyd spacing, is imho useless. you have a floyd-spacing for the studs, use a floyd. its the same deal as that other trem, albeit with finetuners and a bit more tuning stability. I noticed that a huge part of instability was due to the strings slipping in the tremblock (assuming you have a nicely cut nut).
I had a strat a LONG time ago (1 piece quilt maple body, flamed maple neck, floyd, duncan custom in the bridge, sweet guitar, wish I didn't sell it!).
no locking nut, just schaller locking tuners and a graphite nut. divebombs went fine, pullups too, but they weren't as big/deep as with a locking nut (doh, there's more string to pull up or down). but when it came to really just plain 'n simple stability, its fine.
that schaller 'vintage' trem with floyd spacing, is imho useless. you have a floyd-spacing for the studs, use a floyd. its the same deal as that other trem, albeit with finetuners and a bit more tuning stability. I noticed that a huge part of instability was due to the strings slipping in the tremblock (assuming you have a nicely cut nut).
Cagey
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If there's no locking nut, then there's no point in the "fine" tuners. That means you can get rid of a lot of mechanical gimcrackery by going with the Schaller unit. Plus, the Schaller has roller saddles, so hangups aren't an issue. Between roller saddles, a roller nut, and locking tuners I can't imagine there being any tuning stability issues. I don't have them now, and that's without roller saddles.
Also, while the Floyd design is given credit for having extended range over most other vibrato bridges, that's really just a matter of the body routing having more relief in the sustain block cavity. You can get the same thing out of a Wilkinson, Callaham, Hipshot or Fender AmStd if you want to get out the router and teach that cavity a lesson. Floyd's only real claim to fame is the "double locking" feature which is just an unnecessary complication that makes them nearly twice as expensive as anything else. Of course, you could argue that you don't have to spend the money on a good nut and you could just install some cheap Kluson tuners since you won't actually be using them for much, so the total cost of a Floyd installation vs. anything else is probably a wash. It really just depends on how much you enjoy doing tedius protracted setups and wrestling with your hardware even for something as pedestrian as changing a string. Given modern hardware, the Floyd just doesn't make sense any more.
Also, while the Floyd design is given credit for having extended range over most other vibrato bridges, that's really just a matter of the body routing having more relief in the sustain block cavity. You can get the same thing out of a Wilkinson, Callaham, Hipshot or Fender AmStd if you want to get out the router and teach that cavity a lesson. Floyd's only real claim to fame is the "double locking" feature which is just an unnecessary complication that makes them nearly twice as expensive as anything else. Of course, you could argue that you don't have to spend the money on a good nut and you could just install some cheap Kluson tuners since you won't actually be using them for much, so the total cost of a Floyd installation vs. anything else is probably a wash. It really just depends on how much you enjoy doing tedius protracted setups and wrestling with your hardware even for something as pedestrian as changing a string. Given modern hardware, the Floyd just doesn't make sense any more.
Cagey said:
having the finetuners makes tuning easier. at least, in my opinion. if you opt not to use them, thats up to you.
If you think that the floyd can dive deeper, just because its routed, you're really not that familiar with the floyd rose, or tremolo's in general. pitch goes exponentially with the tension, which has to do with string length. the less string you have to move, the easier it is to make it go low, or high.
and IMHO, having locking tuners makes string changing on a floyd just as easy as on a les paul, with or without locking tuners.with a hipshot or wilkinson you also have a floating bridge with all its associated problems. wether you lock the string down or not, bares no relevance, imho.
The string length thing makes sense. Also, Neal Schon says he uses Floyds now not because of needing the whammy, just because he doesn't have to tune up as often. He's also not on my "Top 50 Tone Gods" list.... :laughing11: :laughing11: :laughing11: What's funnest to the most about he and S. Lukather is that in recent interviews they're all gosh golly gee old tube amps sound great! after being the two guys probably most responsible for that bizarre, hideous (shivering) 80's interlude of
SEE MY GIANT RACK? the most processed tone - EVER!
Like an old drunk in church raving about Jesus saves or something. How can we miss you when you never go away.... :sad1:
SEE MY GIANT RACK? the most processed tone - EVER!
Like an old drunk in church raving about Jesus saves or something. How can we miss you when you never go away.... :sad1:
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KainThornn
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I'd be keen on putting a FR Speedloader on my guitar, but using the regular locking nut etc... The Ibanez Edge III allows you to use the ball ends at the bridge, why not the Speedloader?
Cagey
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KainThornn said:
The speedloader design requires special strings manufactured to exacting length tolerances, and there is no locking nut. Then, there just isn't enough travel on the "fine" tuners to take up much slack. So, the string has to be damn near in tune right from the start, and requires special ends due to the loss of the clamps. Good luck finding those in a pinch.
Floyd Rose has always been one to grossly over-engineer a solution. His ideas always work, so you have to give him credit for that, but in the real world those solutions often present a serious pain in the ass. Fortunately, in the process he drags all the other manufacturers along kicking and screaming every inch of the way to come up with a practical way to solve the inherent problems his designs address. If it weren't for him, we'd all still be trying to tune 6 point Fender bridges with strings running through bone nuts, under trees, and into over-wound wire spools with low-ratio cranks.
Strat Avenger
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I disagree that fine tuners without a locking nut are pointless. Those fine tuners are a much shorter distance to reach for, and are quicker in making fine adjustments (hence the term "fine tuners") than typical tuners on the headstock.I like the fine tuner style TOM/STP that is available for LP guitars. I may someday get one of those bridges.
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KainThornn
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Cagey said:
From what I've seen (I have yet to actually touch a Speedloader and/or the strings it uses, so don't beat me too savagely if I'm completely wrong) Fender Bullets should work. Sure, I might be grossly wrong, but I don't see the Speedloader being a screaming success when people give them up in lieu of a trem they can easily find strings for.
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KainThornn
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That I already knew, but if I just get the trem itself and use the traditional locking nut etc... any reason I can't use Fender Bullet strings?
TonyFlyingSquirrel
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Street Avenger said:
+1
Disco Scottie
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KainThornn said:
I've read that you can. Lock the bullet in the bridge, string it up on the other end and use a regular Floyd nut for lockdown. The fine tuners should work like normal once you've stretched the strings and have it tuned properly.
I've actually given thought to trying a Speedloader with an LSR and locking tuners. Would make for very quick string changes.
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KainThornn
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Sounds good, after a little thought I might prefer the Titanium model, but costs being what they are I'll either stick with FRO or go hardtail.
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You'd have to see the strings. They're made to very specific and exact lengths, and the only company that even made them was Dean Markley. Because of that, they were difficult to source. If you had such a bridge, you pretty much had to find somebody that sold them and buy them by the boatload so you always had them on hand, and since Dean had an effective monopoly on them by being the only manufacturer willing to even produce them, they could charge a mint for them. So, the speedloader system never took off. Last I heard, they don't even make them anymore. So, if you can find them at all, they're NOS, and when they're gone, they're gone.
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