EVH "Brown Sound" Challenge

[Cagey]

Why is there always so much hate in these tone clip threads? Is it really surprising that more people don't join in?

That being said, I have nothing to contribute except to say that the clips sound pretty cool to me. It's a cruncha muncha buncha tone. Is it "brown"? Damned if I know. To be perfectly honest, I don't even like Van Halen (but don't tell anyone...).  :laughing7:

I think "hate" might be too strong a word. "Critical" is probably more accurate, and to be fair, most people literally ask for it. "Tell me what you think" they'll say, when what they hope to hear is "Man, that sounds great!" rather than "You need to invest in/develop [list of gear/skills here]". But, criticism can seem much harsher in print than in real life. You can't see people's eyes or body language, and they're often much more concise than they would be in real life, which only makes what's said even more edgy.

Then, there's the disappointed expectation thing. To hear some guys talk on some boards, they taught Hendrix, Trower and Knopfler how to play and what to play with, since they invented the word "tone". Then you hear a clip and it sounds like a bag of cats recorded with a Radio Shack cassette deck on bad tape. Whaddaya gonna do? If you like the guy, you can lie, but you're not doing him any favors. If somebody can't keep time and doesn't know it, somebody's gotta tell him he's wasting his time until he clears up that deficiency.

We all want validation. If we don't get it, or don't see others get it, it hurts. There's a lotta blood, sweat and tears that goes into getting and playing an instrument. But, we have to learn to take criticism, or we won't grow. We're often blind to our own abilities for extended periods of time. At first we know we suck, then as time goes on we think we don't, then as we get better we realize we really suck, then if we listen to criticism we progress to where we really don't. It just takes patience, dedication and work.[/list]

 

[erogenousjones17]

I see your point, but to me there's a difference between "criticism" and "Then again, perhaps the brown sound ain't a popular subject 'round these parts... maybe if we started talking about Joe so-and-so's (who lives down the block) new "Tubulator" brand, made-in-2010, processor-controlled, angry-bees-in-a-bottle-toned amp and how it supposedly sounds t!ts (without any clips, of course)" (sorry to pick on you SL...).

I guess the nuance is whether or not the criticism is constructive. It just seems to me that these tone threads are started by people who will never be convinced that any other tone is "right" or "good" or whatever adjective you prefer to use, and then people with a similar mindset comment on them and no one gets anywhere. As an outsider with nothing constructive (there's that word again), I just can't see the point. But then, like youtube comments, I can't help but read them. Go figure...  :laughing7:

Once again, I'm not trying to bash anyone here. As a matter of fact, I think all those clips sound pretty damn good. But what do I know? I play a Peavey... :tard:

 

[Superlizard]

Well, myself aside (I'm used to it - ain't nothing new heheh) - I think it sucks for the others who have worked on their own clips, but get
nary a word said to them.  And the tumbleweeds roll by...

Oddly enough, if one posted something similar to this thread on another board, there'd be lots of discussion.  It wouldn't
even have to be a "brown sound" discussion...

It's a shame we don't have more than a handful of tone-chasers on this board.  I mean, what? - you build your warmoth, post
pics galore so peeps can "ooh" and "ahh" over the flame/quilt... only to keep it as a piece of furniture in your home?

I always thought it was more than just looks when it comes to guitars and playing guitars?  :dontknow:

Anyhoo, Tburst - I'll try to guess which is which and give ya an answer in the near future.

 

[Superlizard]

I see your point, but to me there's a difference between "criticism" and "Then again, perhaps the brown sound ain't a popular subject 'round these parts... maybe if we started talking about Joe so-and-so's (who lives down the block) new "Tubulator" brand, made-in-2010, processor-controlled, angry-bees-in-a-bottle-toned amp and how it supposedly sounds t!ts (without any clips, of course)" (sorry to pick on you SL...).

Notta prob.

I said what I said simply because that's par for the course here (all talk, no action).  I'm not the only one who notices this, either
- I recall a couple of times when the question was posed (along the lines of), "does anybody actually play their warmoths?" in
reference to other clip-posting threads and the severe lack of participation.

In the grand scheme of things it's no big deal, but it does make for a boring time on the board.  It's like buying (no... building) a Ferrari
and never driving it: "I got lots of shiny pics, but I can't show you what it'll do".

 

[Cagey]

Well, myself aside (I'm used to it - ain't nothing new heheh) - I think it sucks for the others who have worked on their own clips, but get nary a word said to them.  And the tumbleweeds roll by...

Forums seem to build like-minded communities of members, and might even sorta build that into their rules. For instance, some of them eschew all discussion of religion and politics because it invariably leads to harsh language, hurt feelings, wasted space, etc. Some of them won't even let you cuss like a regular human, and actively discourage some subject matter. Others still are ruled by tin-pot dictators who'll ban you if you so much as hint that you disagree with the moderator's point of view. The net result is, you learn what's acceptable and what's not, and either live with it or find another forum. Lord knows there are a bajillion of them <grin>

It's a shame we don't have more than a handful of tone-chasers on this board.  I mean, what? - you build your warmoth, post pics galore so peeps can "ooh" and "ahh" over the flame/quilt... only to keep it as a piece of furniture in your home? I always thought it was more than just looks when it comes to guitars and playing guitars?  :dontknow:

Tone chasers can be tiring. It's all subjective, so there's no right or wrong, so there's tons of dissention in the ranks. Plus, the written word is a poor vehicle to discuss tone. Not only do we all hear things differently, we also enjoy or appreciate things differently, and we all bring certain prejudices to some words. What's "Bright", for instance? Is it that painful ear-piercing thing you get from an Ampeg, or that clarity you get from a Fender? What's "distorted"? There are at least a bajillion ways to get distortion, and they all sound different. Then, one guy will say "distorted" when he means "overdriven", which is arguably the same thing but for some is not. Witness the 3,219 overdrive and distortion pedals out there.

There is certainly more to guitars than looks, but a great deal of it is so personal you're just instigating a fight if you poke at it. This is a fairly peaceful board, and I think that's why. We talk about hardware, and leave it at that for the most part. I don't think anyone's against discussing tone, it's just that like religious or political discussions, it's so often pointless. Nothing is ever learned or resolved, but a lot of blood pressures rise. You put a bunch of tone chasers in a room, and it's like locking a bunch of Muslims, Christians, Scientologists, Baptists, and Hindus in a titty bar with free drinks. Somebody's gonna die <grin>

 

[erogenousjones17]

...and let's not forget the simple fact that not everyone is equipped to record decent sound clips in the first place.

 

[Cagey]

...and let's not forget the simple fact that not everyone is equipped to record decent sound clips in the first place.

Right. Or, play them back. Unless you're trading actual file clips from and for known gear, the best you can hope for is a rough idea, which while fine for listening to the mechanics of how a piece is played is far from acceptable for judging tone.

 

[JaySwear]

...and let's not forget the simple fact that not everyone is equipped to record decent sound clips in the first place.

thats the boat i'm in. i have a video camera that doesn't work with my mac (so no uploading there), a built in video camera that would lag severely and not sound great, and if i DID record using garage band the only mic i have is a Rock Band mic from my xbox 360 game. nothing's going to sound all that great :icon_biggrin:

 

[AndyG]

Tone chasers can be tiring. It's all subjective, so there's no right or wrong, so there's tons of dissention in the ranks.

Truer words have never been spoken (or written!!)  :glasses9:

I am one of those who gets my recorded gutiar sounds via modeling software.  It's great because I can play at anytime of the day or night without disturbing a soul.  I also happen to like the tone I can get.  Added to that the variety of amp and effects models allows me to get ideas just by browsing through patches.  My musical tastes vary, and the music I record is for me first and foremost (I no longer have any kind of rock star aspirations).

If I REALLY feel that I NEED an authentic Marshall/Fender/Vox/whatever tone, I will go out and borrow or rent one, then mic it up with my personal favorite combination :  a Neumann U87 and a Sennhieser 421.
That's also a piece of the equation (for recorded tones) that everyone takes for granted.  A Shure SM57 and a Neumann U87 in front of the same amp will give drastically different tones.  And that's not even mentioning the rest of the recording chain .....

Bottom line .... it's your tone, so you gotta like it.  Whether it sounds like honey flowing out of a jar or angry bees in a jar, the beauty is in the ear of the beholder.

 

[DangerousR6]

I just farted, and it was pretty "brown" sounding..... :redflag:

 

[erogenousjones17]

I just farted, and it was pretty "brown" sounding..... :redflag:

Thread over.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[AutoBat]

i wasn't aware my clip (end of page1) was time limited.  i recorded more than the 30 secs or 1 min that it stops at.

 

[nathan a]

The problem for me too is in the recording. For better or worse, I care more about my tone than I do about what I'm actually playing! I think I often have great tone, though it sure ain't a 'brown sound' type. However, I can't record an electric guitar to save my life. So I don't post clips because my recordings are just so frustrating to me. I like my sound, but once I record it and listen back, that sound isn't me.

EDIT: Perhaps we should have a "home recording" section on the board. I can't be the only one who doesn't know how to go about recording a nice amplified guitar tone.

 

[DangerousR6]

I just farted, and it was pretty "brown" sounding..... :redflag:

Thread over.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Superlizard]

Tone chasers can be tiring. It's all subjective, so there's no right or wrong, so there's tons of dissention in the ranks. Plus, the written word is a poor vehicle to discuss tone.

Written word certainly is a poor substitute to describe tone, but clips say all.

There is certainly more to guitars than looks, but a great deal of it is so personal you're just instigating a fight if you poke at it. This is a fairly peaceful board, and I think that's why. We talk about hardware, and leave it at that for the most part. I don't think anyone's against discussing tone, it's just that like religious or political discussions, it's so often pointless. Nothing is ever learned or resolved, but a lot of blood pressures rise. You put a bunch of tone chasers in a room, and it's like locking a bunch of Muslims, Christians, Scientologists, Baptists, and Hindus in a titty bar with free drinks. Somebody's gonna die <grin>

Regardless of the discussion, it all depends on how overly sensitive the people involved are - I've seen posters here cry over hardware discussions.

If there's no challenge, if there's no "chasing", if there's no discussion, then all one does is sit and spin and learn nothing new.

 

[Superlizard]

i wasn't aware my clip (end of page1) was time limited.  i recorded more than the 30 secs or 1 min that it stops at.

There's no time limit.

 

[AutoBat]

I have nearly no hardware. I recorded that sample using Amplitube 2 on my mac, into a 70's Radioshack brand Realistic preamp (with simulated wood finish!) then out a pair of 70's Magnavox 15's.

 

[TBurst Std]

Tone chasers can be tiring. It's all subjective, so there's no right or wrong, so there's tons of dissention in the ranks.

If I REALLY feel that I NEED an authentic Marshall/Fender/Vox/whatever tone, I will go out and borrow or rent one, then mic it up with my personal favorite combination :  a Neumann U87 and a Sennhieser 421.
That's also a piece of the equation (for recorded tones) that everyone takes for granted.  A Shure SM57 and a Neumann U87 in front of the same amp will give drastically different tones.  And that's not even mentioning the rest of the recording chain .....

Very true! So many look past mikes. When I was analog, I tended towards the U87 or a Royer R121.

 

[AndyG]

Very true! So many look past mikes. When I was analog, I tended towards the U87 or a Royer R121.

In my experience, there seems to be 2 schools of thought when recording electric guitars:

1)  I want my tone to be EXACTLY what I hear on the studio floor.  This is where nice, transparent mics like the Neumann, the Royer, or even an AKG 414 work nicely.
2)  I want to create a tone going to tape (or, these days, hard disk).  This is where using multiple mics, and mic techniques can be useful.

Take your good old fashioned SM57.  It's going to sound different if you mic the center of the speaker close, the edge of the speaker close, or the middle of the cabinet from a distance.  Each one of these sounds exists on albums that everyone who posts here probably owns.
Tight vs loose =  dry with exagerated bass vs roomy and kinda thin.  The latter many not sound great on it's own, but it will leave TONS of room for the bass guitar, which on a lot of older (70's and 80's) albums, you can actually HEAR!!!!

 

[Superlizard]

Take your good old fashioned SM57.  It's going to sound different if you mic the center of the speaker close, the edge of the speaker close, or the middle of the cabinet from a distance.  Each one of these sounds exists on albums that everyone who posts here probably owns.
Tight vs loose =  dry with exagerated bass vs roomy and kinda thin.   The latter many not sound great on it's own, but it will leave TONS of room for the bass guitar, which on a lot of older (70's and 80's) albums, you can actually HEAR!!!!

For the record, my clip had a 57 dead straight-on the center of the combo amp (which actually is offset from the speaker center by a few inches due to the speaker position in the Deluxe cabinet)... and about 6 inches out.  I dig how it turned out.